Ivanhoe dirt jumps need few seconds of your time

[L3ONNOEL]

Well thats not true- they used to be tables and even I could ride em on a 29er SS with the sweet little rollers into the berm before the jumps.


Thats cool and as i mentioned - I am in awe of the work that has been done there. It would be nice if they were more accessible to more people
Question:
If they are to be left (and allowed to remain by Parks) and someone injures themselves- who is responsible (other than the rider)? If someone breaks a leg could they possibly sue Council, Parks, the builder.
Just asking!

They are made for bmx's and the occasional dirt jumper (it's a really tight narrow track), that's what they were made for not huge 29er wheels.

The table tops were cleared to stop people rolling over them and fucking them up, if you can't clear it build your own instead of destroying other peoples work.*

I think the council will just add some signs like at all similar places to cover themselves in case the worst happens, like at skateparks and downhill tracks. They haven't built something that's impossible, there's harder things at the you yangs than these. If they want to knock these down for people safety they might as well close every trail ever, cover everything in bubble wrap and make Victoria flat for maximum safety of the people

 

[Big JD]

They are made for bmx's and the occasional dirt jumper (it's a really tight narrow track), that's what they were made for not huge 29er wheels.

The table tops were cleared to stop people rolling over them and fucking them up, if you can't clear it build your own instead of destroying other peoples work.*

I think the council will just add some signs like at all similar places to cover themselves in case the worst happens, like at skateparks and downhill tracks. They haven't built something that's impossible, there's harder things at the you yangs than these. If they want to knock these down for people safety they might as well close every trail ever, cover everything in bubble wrap and make Victoria flat for maximum safety of the people

really you think the city council will simply put up a few sign and that will relinquish all their responsibility- sorry mate it doesnt and cant work that way. So they are bmx jumps for bmx's only- cool but they werent always like that- and were pretty cool on my 29er- and yes most of us could clear them and not fuck them up. All I am saying is you would have greater community engagement, support and acceptance if they were accessible to a wider range of riders- perhaps that is something that could happen in the future. Look at the changes made by Parks at Lysterfield. The You Yangs is a designated MTB area with clear signage and track grading. I would suggest the Youies is one of the busiest callout spot for emergency services in the state- nothing gets closed down as a result. If the council allow these jumps to remain and put their name to it- you will see alot of enforced changes- risk prevention. Its just how it is on public and multi use land- unless they designate it as a cycling space (which would need to suit all forms).

 

[Staunch]

So are the current jumps harder or easier? You've contradicted yourself in the above quote.

For reference, the previous version of the jumps I'm talking about is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvbnSowqT6Q They were easier than what is there now and they were used by a considerable number of people.

No, if you read it carefully you'd understand that I'm saying that while Adam's are hard, it's not like his set is the hardest that's been there.

True, in the video they do look small but they're also run down too. In their prime (07/08?) I'm like 90% sure they were much bigger

Well, others have said that the last 4 didn't get hit on the ride days???

While they weren't ridden as much as the main line, the did get hit a few times but it was more-so just clearing them than tricking them.

Thing is, there was a smaller set in that area but it got demolished and the dirt used to build what is there now (and a previous version with tabletops). What has been built caters for a very small number of riders who hardly use the trails. What's more, until recently, the run ups were chained off so unless you were in with 'old mate' you couldn't ride them anyway...

Of course, there are always going to be ownership issues with public trails. I don't have an issue with the jumps that are there per se, I just think that they should have been built in addition to, not instead of the easier jumps.

Who said they have to be in the exact same area? Even the same suburb? I know there are limited spots around but that's never stopped us.
When it comes down to it, the people digging have the choice to build what they want, after all they're putting in the work. I'm not saying I agree with destroying existing jumps if someone's actually working on them but if not, someone has to do maintenance/digging and whoever steps up gets the final say as they're actually getting off their ass and putting back into the trails.

 

[atschool]

No, if you read it carefully you'd understand that I'm saying that while Adam's are hard, it's not like his set is the hardest that's been there.

You didn't say that. You said

the trails in the that spot have been harder than they are now

which contradicts

they're certainly not much more difficult than in previous times

But we've both probably got better things to do than to get into semantics.

Who said they have to be in the exact same area? Even the same suburb? I know there are limited spots around but that's never stopped us.
When it comes down to it, the people digging have the choice to build what they want, after all they're putting in the work. I'm not saying I agree with destroying existing jumps if someone's actually working on them but if not, someone has to do maintenance/digging and whoever steps up gets the final say as they're actually getting off their ass and putting back into the trails.

So essentially what you're saying is, if trails aren't being maintained, then another party has the right to take them over and change them as they see fit. Not sure I agree with this. Sure, the previous trails were run-down, but that wasn't only because of lack of maintenance but also because they were being used. In this case, the trails clearly weren't abandoned (which would normally give a new party the right to change the jumps). As I said in a previous post, ownership of public trails is always a bit of a grey area, but in my opinion, the new builder has overstepped the mark. I actually know a guy who used to dig at the older jumps and he was disappointed that they were changed.

In terms of the new jumps' difficulty, I'd argue that it's not their size that is the issue so much as the dismal amount of run up you get to generate speed to clear the gaps as well as the awkward placement of some of the jumps (particularly the last one). I think this is an important distinction compared to the older jumps. Having talked to some pretty advanced bmxers, it took one guy 3 visits to clear two jumps. He cleared it in the end but in his words 'the jumps don't really work'. This is evidenced by the fact that the jumps have seen very little use. It's telling that no-one who has replied to this thread has actually claimed to have hit any of the jumps.

At the end of the day, what's done is done and this discussion is purely academic. It will be interesting to see how the council will manage the jumps and whether there will be any restrictions placed on them.

 

[mlucko]

So are the trails still being demolished or not any more?

If they're staying, I'm not a local but I would love to come down and lend a hand on them!

 

[Staunch]

In terms of the new jumps' difficulty, I'd argue that it's not their size that is the issue so much as the dismal amount of run up you get to generate speed to clear the gaps as well as the awkward placement of some of the jumps (particularly the last one). I think this is an important distinction compared to the older jumps. Having talked to some pretty advanced bmxers, it took one guy 3 visits to clear two jumps. He cleared it in the end but in his words 'the jumps don't really work'. This is evidenced by the fact that the jumps have seen very little use. It's telling that no-one who has replied to this thread has actually claimed to have hit any of the jumps.

Opps, you're right, meant to say 'easier than previous times', fucked that one up.

I'm not saying I agree with the lay-out or the style in which they've been built however, like I did say, that's up to whoever actually steps up to to do work, in this case, Adam.

Yes the old jumps may still be getting ridden but then were do you draw the line of when taking over is ok? Do you wait til they're pretty average to re-build? Until they're un-rideable? Anything that's been properly abandoned by diggers should be up for claim. If no-one's maintaining them, they're going to turn to shit eventually so someone might as well step up and take over.

I understand the frustration that basic jumps got taken away from people who enjoyed them but it has to be remembered that they could of just as easily picked up a shovel and looked after them, keeping the spot as it is but also keeping in good condition.

No-one's going to waste the opportunity of a nice spot like that so unless the idea is to leave the jumps until they crumble, someone will eventually start digging again and when they do, it's their time and effort so it's their call on what/how to build.

 

[atschool]

Opps, you're right, meant to say 'easier than previous times', fucked that one up.

I'm not saying I agree with the lay-out or the style in which they've been built however, like I did say, that's up to whoever actually steps up to to do work, in this case, Adam.

Yes the old jumps may still be getting ridden but then were do you draw the line of when taking over is ok? Do you wait til they're pretty average to re-build? Until they're un-rideable? Anything that's been properly abandoned by diggers should be up for claim. If no-one's maintaining them, they're going to turn to shit eventually so someone might as well step up and take over.

I understand the frustration that basic jumps got taken away from people who enjoyed them but it has to be remembered that they could of just as easily picked up a shovel and looked after them, keeping the spot as it is but also keeping in good condition.

No-one's going to waste the opportunity of a nice spot like that so unless the idea is to leave the jumps until they crumble, someone will eventually start digging again and when they do, it's their time and effort so it's their call on what/how to build.

I think the main point of contention is whether the older jumps were 'properly abandoned' or not. The fact that a previous builder was disappointed with the changes made and that a group of riders lost a place to ride would suggest not. Ultimately, what's happened has happened so fuck it. Don't think there's much more to say really, so I'm going to bow out of the discussion. Peace.

 

[L3ONNOEL]

Shh ssshh shhhhhhhhhhHHHHHH

To the man that asked, this is what has happened
The council has called off the demolition of them, but the jumps are actually on park Victoria's land and that section is related to Aboriginal heritage someone so they want to get rid of them. With the council on out side and the petition hopefully signed soon they might stay, but it doesn't matter the owner is moving to a new spot. He gave away the location so now all the people you don't want to come (scooter kids, people that leave rubbish everywhere, people that can't use shovels) will come and wreck it

I can't be bothered multi quoting because mobile but if you clear a line on your 29er there I will give you my left testicle, I'm not trying to be an ass but they truly are designed for a small bike

Now stop fighting and sign the thing in case they aren't going to be destroyed by parks Vic or other people. If you disagree with them because they are too big or something then don't sign and build your own jumps. Simple

 

[pistonbroke]

Let's be clear here. Picking up a shovel in no way makes you the owner.

 

[Big JD]

Shh ssshh shhhhhhhhhhHHHHHH


I can't be bothered multi quoting because mobile but if you clear a line on your 29er there I will give you my left testicle, I'm not trying to be an ass but they truly are designed for a small bike

The old jumps while they were tables- Ill take your right nut

 

[Big JD]

just to be clear

Just wanted to get this straight

Jumps there for a few years. Last few months they have been taken over and sculptured into BMX jumps of rather challenging proportions that only a few can ride. Council put up a notice to clear the area, you start a petition and have a ride weekend and get on radio. Council or Parks have now said they wont clear the jumps and you have decided to move elsewhere and continue to build the type of jumps that you want. Why if you have the approval of council are you moving on to build something else illegal. Are you concerned that the jumps are too well known now or that council might ask you to make some changes that you dont like?

Im not being difficult mate but I dont follow your actions or your objectives here. There is so much more at play than these few jumps and there are many groups and individuals lobbying the various stakeholders for the betterment of off road cycling along the Yarra, Lysterfield, Plenty Gorge and other parts of Vic.

 

[ben_rides_a_bike]

Lmfao. When do school holidays finish...

Lets all argue about how jumps are built and what bikes can ride them While where at it, why dont we argue and abuse the council about not letting you build and complain about the chances of destruction.

You build on someone elses land that not yours, expect shit to go down. Good luck getting them legalized..

Also, there is no "owner" of dirt jumps. What a joke. There are many permits and legislations regarding Parks Victoria land. Educate yourself, fools.

 

[L3ONNOEL]

Lmfao. When do school holidays finish...

Lets all argue about how jumps are built and what bikes can ride them While where at it, why dont we argue and abuse the council about not letting you build and complain about the chances of destruction.

You build on someone elses land that not yours, expect shit to go down. Good luck getting them legalized..

Also, there is no "owner" of dirt jumps. What a joke. There are many permits and legislations regarding Parks Victoria land. Educate yourself, fools.

Lol ur so fnny

Just wanted to get this straight

Jumps there for a few years. Last few months they have been taken over and sculptured into BMX jumps of rather challenging proportions that only a few can ride. Council put up a notice to clear the area, you start a petition and have a ride weekend and get on radio. Council or Parks have now said they wont clear the jumps and you have decided to move elsewhere and continue to build the type of jumps that you want. Why if you have the approval of council are you moving on to build something else illegal. Are you concerned that the jumps are too well known now or that council might ask you to make some changes that you dont like?

Im not being difficult mate but I dont follow your actions or your objectives here. There is so much more at play than these few jumps and there are many groups and individuals lobbying the various stakeholders for the betterment of off road cycling along the Yarra, Lysterfield, Plenty Gorge and other parts of Vic.

I don't work on these jumps, I don't know why he wants to move I mean it can't be that bad
And 2 jumps isn't a line, I mean the burm and drop in, it's like a skatepark, hence the bmx is easier part

 

[atschool]

Just wanted to get this straight

Jumps there for a few years. Last few months they have been taken over and sculptured into BMX jumps of rather challenging proportions that only a few can ride. Council put up a notice to clear the area, you start a petition and have a ride weekend and get on radio. Council or Parks have now said they wont clear the jumps and you have decided to move elsewhere and continue to build the type of jumps that you want. Why if you have the approval of council are you moving on to build something else illegal. Are you concerned that the jumps are too well known now or that council might ask you to make some changes that you dont like?

Im not being difficult mate but I dont follow your actions or your objectives here. There is so much more at play than these few jumps and there are many groups and individuals lobbying the various stakeholders for the betterment of off road cycling along the Yarra, Lysterfield, Plenty Gorge and other parts of Vic.

Agreed.

I think it should be made clear that LEONNOEL is not actually the builder of the jumps. It would seem apparent that he hasn't neither built there nor hit any of the jumps - basically he doesn't have a horse in the race so you can ignore what he is saying.

With the builder 'leaving' the jumps, this should be taken as a grain of salt. It has happened before and when some minor changes were made, the builder sought to take back control. I don't see why this time will be any different. As strange as it may sound, it would seem that the builder is actually more into building than riding - not sure why else anyone would spend so much time building a set of jumps only to leave them and start building somewhere else.

 

[atschool]

Lmfao. When do school holidays finish...


Also, there is no "owner" of dirt jumps. What a joke. There are many permits and legislations regarding Parks Victoria land. Educate yourself, fools.

Educate yourself: http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?17890-Dirt-Jump-Etiquette

 

[ben_rides_a_bike]

Educate yourself: http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?17890-Dirt-Jump-Etiquette

Wow, a few rules written up on a internet forum? Go tell that to the council that their your jumps on your land with your dirt when they want to knock them down.

 

[atschool]

Wow, a few rules written up on a internet forum? Go tell that to the council that their your jumps on your land with your dirt when they want to knock them down.

Council land is owned by the council - insightful stuff there.

Point is, there is a loose set of rules that govern unofficial trails e.g. No dig no ride, can't make changes without builders permission etc. The interpretation of these rules is essentially what's being discussed here - the fact that they're on Parks Vic land is largely irrelevant.

 

[bikesarefun]

Point is, there is a loose set of rules that govern unofficial trails e.g. No dig no ride, can't make changes without builders permission etc. The interpretation of these rules is essentially what's being discussed here - the fact that they're on Parks Vic land is largely irrelevant.

Problem is that there's a few ways to interpret those rules:

1) The way BMXicans tend to interpret them.

2) The way DJ MTBers tend to interpret them.

3) The was "non-digging" MTBers tend to think they don't matter.


In this case, I think the issue comes from an aspect of BMX culture whereby it's not "cool" to build jumps with safety features (like big case pads and the like). It keeps the trails looking very clean that way, and prevents "unwelcome" people from riding (for example most mere mortals).

In the end, it's a culture issue, and there isn't a right and wrong. But the different parties often won't get along.

 

[L3ONNOEL]

As strange as it may sound, it would seem that the builder is actually more into building than riding - not sure why else anyone would spend so much time building a set of jumps only to leave them and start building somewhere else.

Everyone has a hobby

 

[Live2DieTrying]

...it's not "cool" to build jumps with safety features (like big case pads and the like). It keeps the trails looking very clean that way, and prevents "unwelcome" people from riding (for example most mere mortals).

It's also really hard to cater for all skill levels.
If he'd made them all tabletops there would only be 4 big jumps.

Anyways, I'm thinking of heading out there again tomorrow early arvo, to have a real go at jumping them before they no longer exist.
Hope he's left the place unlocked!