Lights?

Steve_N

Likes Dirt
Throw Dinotte into the mix as well - www.dinottelighting.com.

Although the dive in the AU dollar doesn't help in the value for money standpoint they are still a great lightset...

I have the 600L/200L combo and they are awesome, however you can get other combo's (400L/200L or 200L Dual) for cheaper and still provide gobs of light...
 

Onegear

Likes Dirt
Lights Or Bike.

I run two Lupine Wilma's one on the bars and one on my helmet and they are awesome I can not fault them in any way they have a nice even spread and all the power you will ever need.

Or you could buy another bike and a set of Ayups for what I spent on my lights and batteries.
 

Mays86

Likes Bikes
Thanks alot for all your help people!
I have gone for the Niterider minewt .X2 For what i want it for it is perfect.
Going to run that on my helmet and also run a small 100 Lum on my bars :D
I think the minewt x2 is a good pacage for the price and god dam it is so light! I would go for the ayup but i need this b4 friday so i dont think i will have unuf time too get the ayup
 

McPete

Likes Dirt
Niteriders are good, but they seem expensive for the light output. That and I don't like their plugs, which fall out way to easily.

That said, they run a lot cooler than many other lights I've seen going around.

However, my Sol's 150 Lumens (claimed) seems a bit small for a $260 light. my next lights will be an Ay-Up Enduro kit.
 

tegski

Likes Dirt
Ayups again here - looked at the lbs for their recommendations - they had a set up for $450 that was basically 3 x LED and a 3 hr battery life. I bought the Ayup MTB set as this has 4xLED with 2 x 3 hr battery and a 6hr battery for much the same price - not a hard choice really!!!
My lap times in the Scott were only 2 mins slower at night compared to the daylight laps - I have been blown away by the light output (compared to the Vistas!) and am super impressed.
I also like their discount scheme for the current owners - we get to update any time new products are released at a discounted price - as an ex-salesperson this is very sensible - easy to sell to existing customers! Support Aussie lights.
 

spudatm

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Mines a bit left field. I have 3 Fenix torches. Two i attach to my helmet and one is bar mounted{im thinking of getting a forth to have two bar mounts. They run on aa batteries {two in each} run times of about 2 and half hours. I use them for commuting and night riding. On the highest setting each torch produces 180 lumens The beams are a bit narrow but i have used them in a couple of night races and they worked well. You can buy them online for about 60 bucks a torch. I use cable ties for a helmet mount and they sell a handle bar mounts for about 12 bucks. They won't compete with Lupine's etc but they definately beat my previous halogen setup and if you buy a battery recharger the seta up costs about 300 bucks
 

gavinotb

Cannon Fodder
Photon Max Extreme 1350 Lumens

I did a lot of research into all the rechargeable bike lights that are available and what makes some lights better than others. I even talked to guys here in Australia at NiteFLUX on a couple occasions to discuss the product with them.

So if you interested read on - I was upgrading from an ageing/problematic NiteRider HID system so I really looked into it, I wanted to make sure choosing best rechargeable light for me.

I ended up purchasing the new Photon Max Extreme it puts out 1350 Lumens, I thought it was the most complete package on the market as well as one the brightest at any price point.
Something like a Ayups outputs about 280 Lumens so you would need to run 4 Ayups lighting kits to be in the same ball park, that’s if you had the room to mount all the headlights on yourself and your bike, you would actually need 5 kits to be brighter than Photon Max Extreme.

One of mates has a Ayup kit and you can not even tell it is switched on when I am next to him with the NiteFLUX Photon Max Extreme. When I come up behind him on single track he waves me through as he literally finds it hard to see with my light flooding through from behind casting a large shadow.

One of the most critical areas of high performance, high wattage LED lighting is thermal management of the LED lighting source.
What most bicycle lighting companies don’t tell you that thermal management of the LED light source is critical, elite LED manufactures like Luxeon and CREE literally spend millions of dollars trying to improve how the LED transfers heat away from the central chip inside LED that produces the light, by improving the thermal stability of the LED it can run at higher temperatures small improvements in these areas yield large increases in light output.

If LED’s get to hot you just loose intensity and you potentially damage the LED and reduce the useable life of the LED. There is a safe upper limit that lighting manufactures can safely power the LEDs too, but the bottom line is the cooler the LED the brighter it is, therefore the more effective the thermal management the brighter the light output.

The Photon Max has a radically different headlight design, when compared to most of the Headlights available on the market.
NiteFLUX have followed the lead of quality LED manufacturers as the Photon Max headlight design is all about maximizing the cooling ability of the headlight by way of a well thought out design and utilized the most relevant materials.

NiteFLUX do this by radically increasing the surface area of the headlight and carefully sculpting the headlight body so air can flow unobstructed around and through the center of the headlights body, air can freely circulate around the bottom of the headlight, around the sides of the headlight over the top of headlight and the quite radically through the main body of the headlight.

The Photon Max headlight has what NiteFLUX call Forced Air Cooling – the easiest way to visualize this is to think of a high end GIRO helmet, large frontal vents duct in cool air into the deeply finned alloy headlight body and exhaust vents to allow the hot air to escape.
Some lighting brands have no fining, some have slight surface ribbing and others have deeper fining at the rear of the headlight, none of these designs utilize the natural air pressure that is situated at the front of the headlight to cool the LEDs inside the headlight, A simple example of this is to think of Car Radiator, if the radiator in your car was situated at the back of the car without any significant ducting the car engine would blow up.

To further aid the cooling of the head unit internally the Photon Max has custom substrate, the substrate is a special aluminum plate with embedded circuitry, this is the first stage of heat sinking that LED manufacturers recommend to use when mounting Hi-Watt LED’s to lighting housings. Typically most bicycle lighting manufactures use off the shelf substrates that are designed to be multi purpose in there application.
NiteFLUX have specifically designed there own custom substrate that maximizes the surface contact area of the substrate with headlight multi fined forced air alloy body to further aid the heat transfer directly from the LEDs.
This substrate also has temperature sensors embedded into it, these sensors are also a integral part of managing the thermal discharge of the headlight.

Every part of the headlight has been optimized to be the most effective heat sink but still remain compact and light weight.
Even the switch and power control electronic have been moved to the top of the battery as to have these parts inside the headlight would make it heavier and it would also compromise the thermal design and thermal ability of the headlight.

Headlights are often subjected to a lot more abuse than the batteries so it makes sense to locate the switch and the potentially fragile power electronic parts inside the battery canister where they are protected by a circular alloy battery canister, this also keeps these electronics away from the extreme heat generated from the LEDs.

Remote switches I have had bad experiences with they are weak point in most systems and quiet often the first part to get damaged or fail with normal use and frankly they are pain to mount every time you want to go for a ride.
I actually mount the Photon Max battery to the shoulder strap of my camel back when helmet mounting this gives me instant access to the switch and it is actually easier than reaching for switch on a headlight or trying to switch a hard to find remote switch.

The Photon Max Extreme uses the latest in top of line Multi-Chip LED’s it has 2 x 8watt LED’s and 1 x 4watt LED’s, with 20watts on tap with 1350 Lumens output I think the old NiteRider HID put about 450 Lumens so the difference is incredible.
The Photon Maxs the high beam can potentially generate extreme heat and if the headlight was not in motion the heat sink could become overloaded, that’s when the light will sense it is getting too hot and it will automatically throttle the power back, once the headlight is at a safe temperature for the LED to return to Hi-Beam the power will automatically return to full.

This also protects your expensive multi chip LEDs from being damaged, even in unforeseen circumstances like the light turning on accidentally in sports bag.

To have a light without different beam choices (like Ayup) may make it okay for point A to Point B drag races but for every day and training use I really like the flexibility of 4 different power levels and the flash mode to match performance to task at hand.

When you buy a rechargeable light one of its most important features is that it reliably recharges and can be recharged regularly without any danger of over or under charging. NiteFLUX have proprietary charge electronics called Intelligent Charge Control.
Unlike most lighting companies NiteFLUX give a full 12months warranty on the battery and charger where 3months appears to be the norm from most other companies, if companies cant stand behind there charge system what are they really selling?

NiteFLUX lights are one of the few companies the state that they have AAA Gold Standard Charge Control, the charge control is built into the battery and it automatically analyzes the battery cells every second of the charge cycle for temperature, voltage and voltage balance between the cells.
This electronic ICC circuitry is a proprietary design unique to NiteFLUX, the make this part right here in Australia so they have complete control over what is arguably the most important part of rechargeable lighting system.

You can leave NiteFLUX batteries on the charge for 12months at a time with out any worry of overcharging the battery, while the NiteFLUX battery is on the charge it is automatically balancing the charge capacity in all the battery cells equally and keeping all the battery cells fully charged this ensures your battery is in the best possible condition.
The NiteFLUX charger/power supply will not draw any more power than a DVD player on stand-by once the battery is charge.

NiteFLUX have a 4 hour charge time, but you can link 2 chargers together via a y-cord to recharge the battery in 2 hours, this allows you to recharge faster than you can discharge if you are charging up between laps in a Enduro team race situation. NiteFLUX call this piggy back charging, so for the cost of y-cord and charger you can negate the need for buy a expensive second battery.

NiteFLUX have a very well established background in Australia they are actually longest running Australian owned producer of high power rechargeable lights as they have had lights in production since 2002. A couple of years back they partnered up with another Australian Lighting Company Vicious Power, Vicious where renowned as being the most advanced makers of high power HID lighting in the world, the NiteFLUX lighting range was previously solid and well rounded/versatile, currently it has became absolutely cutting edge.

If you really want have something that gives you the best lighting performance and is extremely versatile and with a very well thought design and engineering that is more than skin deep marketing fodder the NiteFLUX lighting range has to be seriously considered.
 

RichJS

Likes Dirt
I ended up purchasing the new Photon Max Extreme it puts out 1350 Lumens, I thought it was the most complete package on the market as well as one the brightest at any price point.
Something like a Ayups outputs about 280 Lumens so you would need to run 4 Ayups lighting kits to be in the same ball park, that’s if you had the room to mount all the headlights on yourself and your bike, you would actually need 5 kits to be brighter than Photon Max Extreme.
You sound a lot like a shill for NiteFlux. Pardon my cynicism but when and where did you buy these, and how much for? It looks like they've only just been announced, and the only place online selling them appears to be in the USA, available to order as of today. (Shipping date not mentioned.)

Once you start comparing them to AyUps you sound a bit silly, so I'll play the role of AyUp fanboy (I own a pair):

AyUps are only 280 lumens a pair, but they also weigh 160grams for light and 3hr battery. Funnily enough, the light you review weighs 500 grams, and lasts only 1.5 hours - unless you turn down the brightness.. by now, you'll have noticed it's light output to weight ratio starts to look a lot like AyUps. (Light output per hour per dollar ratio, at my best guess, too!)

Have you looked at the AyUp site at all? Pretty sure I saw pics there of people running 3 pairs of lights on their bars and 2 on their helmet with a minimum of effort..

To have a light without different beam choices (like Ayup) may make it okay for point A to Point B drag races but for every day and training use I really like .. (etcetc)
Eh, which drag races are they? :p (Sounds like my every day riding home from work in winter!) Did you notice that AyUps come in a choice of 3 beams?

When you buy a rechargeable light one of its most important features is that it reliably recharges and can be recharged regularly without any danger of over or under charging. NiteFLUX have proprietary charge electronics called Intelligent Charge Control.
...
NiteFLUX have a 4 hour charge time, but you can link 2 chargers together via a y-cord to recharge the battery in 2 hours, this allows you to recharge faster than you can discharge if you are charging up between laps in a Enduro team race situation. NiteFLUX call this piggy back charging, so for the cost of y-cord and charger you can negate the need for buy a expensive second battery.
Wow, a charger that stops charging when the battery is full! Lithium Ion batteries that you can charge whenever you want! :rolleyes:

Do they really recommend connecting two chargers together in parallel? This is pretty unusual, as you'd imagine that having something other than just battery connected to a charger would stuff up detection of the battery status. Why don't they just offer a charger with double the current output?

It's pretty cool that an Australian company released such a bright light, AFAIK brighter than all the available HIDs even - but who wants 1300 lumens on their head?

Also, all that thermal management is there for a reason: I imagine 8-watt LEDs would indeed run hot .. So, what ambient temperature (and I guess airspeed) do they start to cut down the brightness at? How much by - are they going to halve in brightness on a 30 degree summer's night when you're riding slowly around twisty singletrack?

I wonder how long until AyUp put out a product using the CREE MC-E LEDs, like this NiteFLUX does.... :cool:
 
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McPete

Likes Dirt
Interesting this topic comes to the fore again...

I read your spiel too, Gavino. Sounds like a mildly-edited press release.

I was rather thinking of spending K-Rudd's stimulus money on a set of Ay-Ups, or a HID-Technologies Lumen8r, or a Knog Gator 605...

Anyone got a Gator?
 

WolfCreekPsycho

Likes Dirt
Somehow I dont think we will see Galvinotb back to answer his questions.
I have read enough well structured marketing blurbs in my time to see this for just what it is...

So..does this then qualify as spam or overly transparent viral marketing?

Is this how they intend to market their new products ?

If so would it change your opinion on buying Niteflux in the future ?
 

krisko

Likes Dirt
I personally think there comes a point were you can have too much light.
Avid night mtb riders will know what I mean. Depth perception can become lost confusing you. That 5" dip in the trail ahead looks flat because its flooded with light.

Its like photography you most often get the best photos with a cloudy day there isn't too much difference between highlights and shadows but enough for you NOT to ignore one or the other. Over expose (light up one area too much) and the detail is gone. Likewise with shadows.

There are many great lights out there personally I think 1000+ lumens is ridiculous I would prefer more run time like on there Photon Max the extreme is just silly IMO but less experienced riders will fall for this marketing.
More HP (light) must be better right? not necessarily.

Were aussies we love simplicity. I hat flicking through power ranges they are a pain when racing crits or endurance events. I wnat to turn a light on and ride..... Maybe this is why AYUP are doing so damn well?

I still ride with a Topeak HID on my helmet 480 lumens and an AYUP on the bar. I love the depth a bar light gives on the trail.

Still I see alot of people jumping in and buying the MAX extreme. I'll just put sunscreen on my back to avoid sunburn from there light!
 

DaGonz

Eats Squid
I personally think there comes a point were you can have too much light.
Avid night mtb riders will know what I mean. Depth perception can become lost confusing you. That 5" dip in the trail ahead looks flat because its flooded with light.
...
I still ride with a Topeak HID on my helmet 480 lumens and an AYUP on the bar. I love the depth a bar light gives on the trail.
And that's the ticket. Make sure your bars are brighter than your helmet and you'll always get good results. I reckon, and I'll always maintain that with this combo, there are sections of trail I have ridden faster at night!

Maybe this is why AYUP are doing so damn well?
I would suggest AY-UP are doing so well because they have a well made product that's within the feature band and price range of 90% of pundits out there, they have a funky name, reasonable (ie actual) marketing, and they look pretty. They are the Apple of the Australian light market. I've known hard core adventure and endurance mtb racers conciously choose other products because the AYUP didn't quite match their needs, but if it wern't for forums like this or word of mouth, you probably wouldn't have known about them.

*shrug*

Cheers
Gonz
 

Knopey

Likes Dirt
Somehow I dont think we will see Galvinotb back to answer his questions.
I have read enough well structured marketing blurbs in my time to see this for just what it is...

So..does this then qualify as spam or overly transparent viral marketing?

Is this how they intend to market their new products ?

If so would it change your opinion on buying Niteflux in the future ?
Definitely spam or sneaky marketing at the least, and yes I'm glad I didn't buy their product now and won't in the future.
Sneaky &/or underhanded... :mad:
 

Dreggsy

Likes Bikes and Dirt
AY-Up

Definately AY-Up's are the best bang for the buck in terms as of lighting power, charge time and weight.

They have a few beam patterns
I recommend the intermediate on the helmet and a narrow on the bars, If it doesnt work for you it's pretty easy to swap them for a different beam pattern,
extra batteries are cheap, thay are well made and you can use them for snorkelling / scuba

I haven't seen the new gecko mounts yet, but they do look promising.

tell 'em i sent ya!!!
 

macboy

Likes Dirt
Ay-Up's are gold!!

I personally don't own Ay-Ups, or any great lights anymore. Did the surf coast 6hr hour last year with a borrowed light and it was ok/crap.
My riding partner has just lashed out for a set of Ay-Up's. I think it was the enduro kit. OMG I've never been so happy riding at night. We rode the Oxfam Trail (100km), starting at 11 at night. He used his head mount with no bar mount and I had the bar mount, with just a simple head torch. Our other mate had both.
The head mount got almost four hours of good light, from what is mean't to be only three. I had the six hour light and I only changed that over to another battery at 5:30 am as I felt it was starting to get dull, maybe I was just tired. So that was 6.5 hours from a 6 hour battery and it probably would have lasted til sunrise, as apposed to my heavy eye lids.
When I finally get my own and stop scrounging I'll be hard pressed not to get Ayup's.
 

DeBloot

Feeling old
Ay-ups for sure

Thing that gets me about the gavinotb style of 'direct' marketing is
Who is going to read all that crap?
Most buyers have a pretty short attention spans. I read the first 2 paragraphs before I gave up. If it wasn't on farkin I probably wouldn't have got past the first
Plus, it's just transparently dishonest. Own up to who you are, succinctly present your agrument for your product and let the customer decide

And you may as well insert those lights in your bum you're at it
You've won no customers here using that tactic
You've just prolonged another 'buy ay-ups' thread

Sorry, couldn't resist having a go at this under the radar spammer
Not that he'll bother coming back to read it
 

RichJS

Likes Dirt
I personally think there comes a point were you can have too much light.
Avid night mtb riders will know what I mean. Depth perception can become lost confusing you. That 5" dip in the trail ahead looks flat because its flooded with light.
Exactly - a helmet light gives poor depth perception because there are no shadows cast on bumps when the light source is near your eyes.

And that's the ticket. Make sure your bars are brighter than your helmet and you'll always get good results. I reckon, and I'll always maintain that with this combo, there are sections of trail I have ridden faster at night!
I was pretty happy a couple of years ago with AyUp on helmet and 10w broad beam halogen on the bars - about half the brightness maybe? It was kindof distressing because the difference in colour temp meant that the bluer AyUp light made the yellow bar lights continuously look like they were going flat!

I wouldn't say the bars need to be brighter than the helmet - they just need to cast a shadow on the bumps that isn't washed out completely by the helmet light. With 1300 lumens on your head, you would have to spend a bit of money on a suitable bar light.. (tri-newt perhaps?)
 
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