Manly Dam Works Feedback

[Jonny26]

So before the steps were there I considered it a tricky section, as mentioned if its wet or dry the timber is slippery, I was there a few weeks ago and walked that section to see what people are talking about.
Well I have to say its bloody dangerous IMO, if you hit your head on those steps it will knock you out of action for a long time, completely stupid and not needed.

 

[outtacontrol]

This is what you seem to be missing you TOOL.

No shut your hole!

Nice, do you always resort to name calling when someone disagrees with you.

Sorry, is that No shut your hole, or Yes shut your hole. Think you need to take a breath and calm down before hitting the keyboard.

If you guys are going to start calling me mean names for disagreeing with your opinions, I'm happy to agree to disagree.

 

[VTSS350]

Nice, do you always resort to name calling when someone disagrees with you.

Sorry, is that No shut your hole, or Yes shut your hole. Think you need to take a breath and calm down before hitting the keyboard.

If you guys are going to start calling me mean names for disagreeing with your opinions, I'm happy to agree to disagree.

Its fine to have an opinion if you have experienced what we are actually talking about or know the level of skill the track is aimed at. Fact is you dont and your comments are wrong.

Now go and anoy someone else!

 

[outtacontrol]

Fact is you dont and your comments are wrong.

According to you

 

[raintonr]

According to you

Not really.

If you look back over the posts from the last few days you'll see the majority of them are telling you that you are wrong.

Seriously, just give it up and stick to discussing your home turf.

 

[ido09s]

With any luck the wooden ramp will be wet when outtacontrol rides it and he will see exactly what we are talking about. I dont care of you are Sam Hill, when that ramp is wet you are lucky to make the corner without sliding into the stair case. Any amount of braking and all you do is lock up the wheel, thus leaving you nowhere to go but into the stairs.

And for the record, i am sure none of us are 'shaking in our boots' we just wish that common sense would have prevailed in the building of the stairs. They probably would have been a lot safer had they been built on the inside of the corner, instead of the outside of the corner.

I really dont think the pictures do it justice as its quite steep and a very shaded area of the trail which means the timber is slippery more often than not.

Best thing outtacontrol, leave your opinions to yourself until you have ridden the trail. Once you have done so, and hopefully its wet when you do, then you would have gained more knowledge of what we are talking about and will be in a better place to comment on the work carried out.

 

[scblack]

Nice, do you always resort to name calling when someone disagrees with you.

Sorry, is that No shut your hole, or Yes shut your hole. Think you need to take a breath and calm down before hitting the keyboard.

If you guys are going to start calling me mean names for disagreeing with your opinions, I'm happy to agree to disagree.

You have been REPEATEDLY told to shut up because you have no clue what you are talking about here.

It is not a DH track, it is a family track. So talking about your "gnarly" sections in Townsville makes you look like a try-hard. Seriously, you look like such a self-made hero it is very very sad.

When you have seen what was there before, and the botch job it is now, and can comment from knowledge, then you have a right to post in here.

Go away until you have a clue.

 

[outtacontrol]

Best thing outtacontrol, leave your opinions to yourself until you have wridden the trail. Once you have done so, and hopefully its wet when you do, then you would have gained more knowledge of what we are talking about and will be in a better place to comment on the work carried out.

Fair enough.

Taking the section involved out of the picture for a second, I think it is important to remember that ultimately, the land belongs to the land manager, not us.
We are there by invitation only, a situation that can easily change. Whether we agree with it or not, the land manager can do whatever he wants to his land, regardless of design, good or bad.

Obviously there are people who use this trail are unhappy with the section involved, I think we just need to be careful of how we deal with it. Land managers don't enjoy dealing with user groups that are hostile and aggressive, and judging by some of the responses on here, there is a danger of that being the case.

By all means, talk to the land manager, but do it in a positive way, thereby creating a better chance of a positive outcome.

 

[VTSS350]

Fair enough.

Taking the section involved out of the picture for a second, I think it is important to remember that ultimately, the land belongs to the land manager, not us.
We are there by invitation only, a situation that can easily change. Whether we agree with it or not, the land manager can do whatever he wants to his land, regardless of design, good or bad.

Obviously there are people who use this trail are unhappy with the section involved, I think we just need to be careful of how we deal with it. Land managers don't enjoy dealing with user groups that are hostile and aggressive, and judging by some of the responses on here, there is a danger of that being the case.

By all means, talk to the land manager, but do it in a positive way, thereby creating a better chance of a positive outcome.

We know all that mate. No one has been rude to the land manager. There have been a few well worded emails send and Infact the land manager has agreed that it was constructed badly and should and will be rectified.

I am not sure why you have even bothered to post in the thread. You mention "we" are you going to help??? I think not!

You have gone from having a go at people for there lack of skill to telling us how we should deal with the land managers. Fact is you have no idea about the track, the area, the land manager or the people that have been working towards better tracks on the northern beaches.

Just do as everyone has asked a put your head back in your hole!!!!

 

[outtacontrol]

I am not sure why you have even bothered to post in the thread. You mention "we" are you going to help??? I think not!


Just do as everyone has asked a put your head back in your hole!!!!

I said "we" because, as mountain bikers we all face the same issues regarding land access issues.

Just to clear something up, this is a forum. It is for everybodys opinion, even if it is not yours.

I am happy to leave the thread, not because of someone who feels important from shouting people down , but because I have had the chance to put my point of view across. I have done so calmly and rationally, perhaps you could try it sometime

 

[thecat]

. Land managers don't enjoy dealing with user groups that are hostile and aggressive, and judging by some of the responses on here, there is a danger of that being the case.

Again you are throwing up opinions with out knowing the facts or history.

Land manager- rider relationships got off to a great start. Riders were involved in a volunteer maintenance program, they were, are involved in education program, such as advertising the fact that it's a no go area in the wet, they were consulted on trail design and ways to improve problem areas

Suddenly and with out warning riders were left out of the picture and contractor brought in. silly design and construction mistakes were made, basic stuff that has been out the door in trail construction for years. Things were being done to make the trail far less fun, yet done poorly so instead of being more sustainable they now had worse drainage. Board walks went in and killed the few technical areas. Stupid pointy edge steps were placed in likely crash zones. Copper logs were places at intervals that were wheel catchers....

Riders tried to point this out in a helpful way, offering alternative suggestions and offering more volunteer hours. IMBA trail build standards were pointed out. Riders were ignored.



And ignored
and ignored
and ignored

Feeling their concerns were falling on deaf ears rider felt the only stance left to them was to argue in a more forceful tone.

It's all well and good to say we should just be thankful the land manager allows us to ride their land (It's not their land by the way but crown land, so owned by the queen, set aside for public recreation) but how would you feel if suddenly your land manager decided to ban riding all because a land manager in Sydney found themself on the wrong end of a law suit all because Joe wanker fell off and hurt himself and the court decided the land manager is at fault because of the poor trail design they put in place.

That's what our concerns are mate, some fool is going to get hurt (not mr cool "we have technical trails", but average joe out for a sunday flow sniffer ride with his accountant) and that is going to have bad repercussions on continued accesd here and elsewhere.

You are being shut down not because you have a differing opinion but because that opinion fails to take into account the bugbears of this particular issue and then you refuse be swayed by all the other people who 1) have the local knowledge 2)know the trail 3) know the history and 4) beleive your opinion is completely off the mark

 

[outtacontrol]

how would you feel if suddenly your land manager decided to ban riding all because a land manager in Sydney found themself on the wrong end of a law suit all because Joe wanker fell off and hurt himself and the court decided the land manager is at fault because of the poor trail design they put in place.


You are being shut down not because you have a differing opinion but because that opinion fails to take into account the bugbears of this particular issue and then you refuse be swayed by all the other people who 1) have the local knowledge 2)know the trail 3) know the history and 4) beleive your opinion is completely off the mark

I wouldn't say I refused to be swayed. I think you explain your point of view very well, perhaps it is because you haven't started frothing at the mouth before typing, like some before you.

You are right, I would be unhappy if litigation issues affected my trails. But to fair, this risk doesn't only come from poorly designed trail features. The risk of injuries scaring land managers into banning riding areas is a very real risk that MTBers face, regardless of where you live. Granted, poorly built trail features do add to this risk.

If I came across as suggesting that you guys have dealt poorly with your land manager, it was not what I intended. You correctly point out that I have no knowledge of your relationship.
I was talking in general about the need to keep land managers on side through positive dialoge.

I genuinely wish you well with your endeavours, and look forward to checking out the dam in May.

At the end of the day, we are all in the same boat.

 

[ido09s]

Taking the section involved out of the picture for a second, I think it is important to remember that ultimately, the land belongs to the land manager, not us.
We are there by invitation only, a situation that can easily change. Whether we agree with it or not, the land manager can do whatever he wants to his land, regardless of design, good or bad.

I beg to differ. The land owner has a duty of care.

Look, at the end of the day the guys who ride the Dam regularly, myself included, know the spot is there and yes, we do ride it accordingly. (although even in the wet it is extremely hard to walk down as it is simply just that slippery) It has already been said, but the problem we face is the average guy who decides to ride this part may, and will more than likely, come unstuck and its this sort of person who is likely to sue for damages, something we obviously dont want to happen. Your not aware of the diverse type of people who actually ride the dam. Its not uncommon to see 5 year olds with mum and dad, or grand parents getting around with thier grand children.

A lot of us feel quite strongly about Manly Dam as its a very local trail, and to be honest a very decent trail, being that it is in an extreme resedential area. What we dont want is to lose the trail because of a law suit over an unfortunate accident. By asking to have this area removed, we can only hope that it will prevent any such case happening any time soon.

 

[outtacontrol]

A lot of us feel quite strongly about Manly Dam as its a very local trail, and to be honest a very decent trail, being that it is in an extreme resedential area. What we dont want is to lose the trail because of a law suit over an unfortunate accident. By asking to have this area removed, we can only hope that it will prevent any such case happening any time soon.

Seems perfectly fair. Good luck.

 

[thecat]

this risk doesn't only come from poorly designed trail features. The risk of injuries scaring land managers into banning riding areas is a very real risk that MTBers face, regardless of where you live. Granted, poorly built trail features do add to this risk.

Again there is a difference between a risk and a hazard. there is a certain amount of inherent risk in mountain biking. For the most part by partaking in that activity you assume that risk.

A poorly designed trail on the other hand can be a different matter. If obstacles have been deliberately placed in crash zone this becomes a hazard and that is a whole other ball game.

 

[BT180]

In the interim, surely the corners of those stairs can be sawn off? Still a bad stack if you were to hit them but it would take the edge off (pun intended).

Tempting to go and do it myself!

 

[ido09s]

We are riding there on Saturday morning Ben. As always please join us and bring along your hammer of choice. I am sure thats all it would take to remove the sharp edges

 

[nrthrnben]

I am happy to leave the thread

Your only post that we agree with




couldn't resist

 

[outtacontrol]

Your only post that we agree with




couldn't resist

At least we agree on something

 

[PLUCAS]

Thanks heaps

See just how far complaining gets us.

Too much money to fix, so it just gets shut (well parts of it anyway.)