Mt Coot-tha Forest - Mountain bikes eroding bush zone

[peep]

For those who want to be a little more educated about what their bikes are doing to the environment (especially if said reporter wants to get our impressions):

This website from the Sacramento Area Mountain Bike Association has links to a number of articles and studies (by impartial observers and land managers) that discuss the impact of MTBs on the environs.

http://www.sustainableenterprises.com/SAMBA/enviro.htm

I thought the NZ study was pretty interesting, as they look at both the physical impact of biking vs other recreational use as well as peoples perceptions of mountainbiking.
Check out the summary of main points at http://www.mountainbike.co.nz/politics/doc/impacts/summary.htm

Lets hope that something good will come out of all this hoo-ha!

 

[Sparkman]

I thought the NZ study was pretty interesting, as they look at both the physical impact of biking vs other recreational use as well as peoples perceptions of mountainbiking.
Check out the summary of main points at http://www.mountainbike.co.nz/politics/doc/impacts/summary.htm

Lets hope that something good will come out of all this hoo-ha!

I think the main concern is public perception. The NZ article was referring to MTB riding in general. However, DH riders must be viewed at the worst exterme. Consider a bunch of people riding bikes with monster travel in serious Darth vader gear flying down trails at warp speed.... Hmmm gets your juices flowin, but probably scares the shit out of the weekend walking public.

Unless DH riders have their own non-walking tracks to ride, there will always be a conflict. Unless Dh riders have some political representation, they will probably ultimately lose, especially if a political lobby group steps into the fray.

I remember when the council graded heaps of trails at Gap creek for MTB use and the MTB riders we so shitted with the destruction of some good trails that they made heaps of new and better ones. Talk about counter productive.

 

[fiddler]

Sparkman,

It is really only two parts of Deano's that is severly erroded and that is the shute and were it joins the walking tracks. If the rangers let us mantain the trails we could build a new bottom section that bypassed the shute and continued down the ridge to the fire road. That way the erosion would be stopped and the track would not join onto the walking path. Yes, the track would still have to cross the walking track at some point but at least it wouldn't continue on it for a long way.

 

[Ryan]

You realise Deano's is a walking track all the way to the top of the mountain, well it was originally anyway, it's just been used as a DH run for so long that people have forgotten that. Ask Deano himself if you don't believe me.

Of all the things that could come out of the Coot-tha management plan, access to Deano's and in paticular being allowed to build a new finish to it will almost certainly not be one of them.

 

[Emerin]

Ah i'm glad someone else got this. I didn't see it here or know about it cos' i wasn't here when it got posted! There are many interesting points brought up here and maintaining the tracks ourselves is one of them. But if they were to start allowing us to do that, i'm sure we would get idiots that abused that and started to built up tracks instead of just fixing and maintaining them. Also, if and when (for i think this is a matter of time) they start to charge for maintence of this area, we should contact the Brisbane City Council and lobby that ALL uses of this area (walkers and mtb's alike) should pay for entry.
On another note, i think this was sparked after all these storms came through. I don't know about u guys (i haven't had a dig at the DH tracks yet) but the XC trails were pretty shocking after the rains. I think this is where most of the bad media came from... they are blaming us for what the bad weather has done.

 

[ELX]

There's a follow up artical in the Curiour Mail today Sarurday. Called Walker's vs Riders it's a small artical ner the back of the main saceiton of the paper on the top right of a right page.

 

[zen_rider]

it seems very unlikely to me that mountainbikers will ever stop using the area to some degree. I'm not sure if they realise that, but in any case they should, and work with mtbers to minimize any damage done.

Of course mtb use causes damage, but what doesnt? surely low maintenance tracks can be built and responsibility taken for continued access.

Having something like Mt Coot-tha so close to town is a real treat, something that shouldn't be taken for granted

 

[Tomac Boy]

dhfactory wrote:

Countless illegal tracks

Deanos, Hot n spicy, original, 4.5(crystal or poo shooter), 3 tattoos(ch 10).

thats 5...none of the other tracks are seldom ridden by dhers.


dhfactory wrote:

A CONSERVATION and community group has found the most extensive environmental damage done to Mt Coot-tha Forest is not from motorbikes or four-wheel-drives, but from mountain bikes.

...gee i thought ski-doos did all the damage. There is no 4wd access at all at cootha, and motos at cootha? when was the last time you saw a moto strapp’n cootha? that is a deceptive comparison.


dhfactory wrote:

causing widespread erosion

5 tracks approx 1.25km (2.5 mins at 30kph) at 1.5m wide = 10000m² square max. That’s 100m x 100*m with potential for erosion from downhillers. Considering that substantial erosion only occurs in braking zones, and the total area of cootha/gap creek , widespread is a slight exaggeration.

dhfactory wrote:

erosion and silting of creeks in the steep shale country.

since when did shale erode?

dhfactory wrote:

Hut Environmental and Community Association yesterday called on the Brisbane City Council to stop downhill riders using the park.

Has anyone elce herd of this group?


dhfactory wrote:

Vice-president Rod Brown said it made no sense that the city's environmental levy was used to acquire parkland which was then torn up by bike riders ....

Isn't cootha council property? and always has been?

The statement also suggests that the area is soley used for mtbers.


dhfactory wrote:

.....and still more ratepayers' funds used to repair damage.

has anybody EVER seen council repairing one of our tracks?

dhfactory wrote:

It was illegal to build tracks or ride vehicles in the forest and the BCC had enforced this in relation to motorbikes and 4WDs but had ignored mountain bikes.

This statement is false in both points. Building or riding tracks at mt cootha has been disallowed (On the inner side of the ring road - where the main complaints are arising from) for ages.

dhfactory wrote:

Mt Coot-tha is an absolute maze of illegal tracks and eroded places

maze: An intricate, usually confusing network of interconnecting pathways.

5 sparce tracks? none of which even cross?

dhfactory wrote:

His organisation had no issue with bicycles because they were mostly ridden at a leisurely pace on fire tracks but mountain bike riders went off-road.

So people are riding road bikes, comfort bikes and bmx's on fire trails? By the way Mr Brown, a fire trail is "off road".

dhfactory wrote:

Cr Helen Abrahams said she had inspected the damage and found it major.

I take it Helen Abrahams has a degree in environmental science, making her opinion worth more than a grain of salt...not likely

dhfactory wrote:

Cr Abrahams said she expected the draft plan to be implemented in about a month and it would allow bikes on fire tracks and provide a downhill section at Gap Creek.

OOooo, gap creek, with a shuttlable turnaround of about 35-45 mins for a 2.5min run sounds great.....Sounds like mrs abrahams really knows what the riders want - perhaps she even throws down a few runs herself....

dhfactory wrote:

Mr Brown said if mountain bikes were to be allowed, the least that should occur was that riders paid for the privilege so repair costs could be defrayed.

Cr Abrahams said the council would look at charging riders for rehabilitation.

again, has anybody EVER seen council repairing one of our tracks?


dhfactory wrote:

About 200,000 bicycles were bought each year in Australia and of those more than half were mountain bikes.

oh and let me guess, 99.9% do 2200 runs per month week at the absolute maze of illegal tracks. If this trend continues, mt cootha will erode to an arid desert within 3 years from the 100m x 100m* area of land the dhers use. The city's environmental levy ratepayers' funds used to repair damage will turn Australia into a 3rd world country within 4 years....


*feel free to correct me on the maths, its been a while.....

 

[ELX]

You a fucking genoious. I'n gonna send that to the council.

 

[peachy]

they give skaters skate parks
they give bmxers skate parks
they give bmxers jump parks
they build a walking bridge across the river for walkers
they build coro drive for lazy people
they give kids playgrounds at parks
they give downhillers???

i don't understand, the point has been made several times in this topic the fact that the tracks would be well maintained if we didn't get fined for maintaining them... are the council too blind to see that we would be MORE than happy to maintain the tracks but NOOooOOOooOOOoooOOOoo BCC just want to a bunch of arseholes... ffs, get a bike BCC

 

[toodles]

Ha ha they printed a bit from my letter. REVENGE!!! Wee bit edited mind you but still...

 

[Ryan]

Nice work toodles...anyone got a copy of the follow up article they'd be willing to scan and post? Or even just clip out and hold on to so sometime in the future I could grab it off you to scan?

I just want to start archiving as much of this stuff as I can for future reference...

Tomac, as far as I'm aware the tracks leading into the Gap Creek side of the mountain aren't even an issue as there's already a management plan agreed upon by all parties in place for Gap Creek Reserve. So really it's only the 3 "illegal" trails inside the ring-road that are the problem, 2 of which are originally walking tracks that were built by the council anyway...which makes their illegality a little questionable. 3 Tattoo's is also (until it crosses the road) on the road reserve, which isn't a part of the Coot-tha reserve anyway and when it does cross into the reserve, it's on a fire road anyway, so according to these fucktards it's fine and dandy.

 

[toodles]

Fair enough walkers get annoyed - first time visitors don't know MTBers ride the tracks (because the council won't mark them!!!) so they freak a little when their kid almost gets mowed down by hooligan on a DH sled. But to then go make up some completely BS excuse about us being an environmental threat to try and get us banned is a bit rude. It's just mismanagement and poor allocation of resources. A couple of tracks + a few "MTB only/No walkers" signs and they'd barely notice us there. Maybe maintain the tracks once a month and there'd be very little erosion. It's not that freakin hard!

 

[Tomac Boy]

Honestly, i think the council doesn't really give a shit about erosion caused by mountain bikers - as the problem is virtually non-existant.

The handfull of selfish "do gooder" walkers with no life, do however - and care much more when they almost get trowlled by a dher on deanos clocking 60kph(and who here hasn't almost hospitalised a walker on deanos :lol: :lol: ), or when they roll their ankle on a braking bump.

The council is scared shitless of getting sued from a walker from a collision with a rider(liable for incorrect signage on their part) - which is a very high possibility.

So by agreeing with the handful of hippe freaks, they now have an excuse to ban mtbers, and minimise possible lawsuits taken against them.

SOLUTION:

Allow designated DH only tracks which walkers are banned from. And ban DHers (by definition should be anyone doing shuttles) from walking tracks.

Track maintenance should also be permitted on these DH specific tracks.

Deanos must have an alternate ending that doesn't cross the walking track, shutting it down will always be difficult - as it is soo easy and fun to ride and soo many people love it. If it get covered in sticks, riders will always remove the sticks and ride on - same as always.

This solves all problems-
1. No possibility of walkers being hit by a dher.
2. Erosion minimised from track maintenance.
3. As xc riders aren't doing anywhere the speeds as Dhers, the chances of serious injury from one colliding with a walker is virtually non-existant.

 

[MTB_SYCO]

isnt it funny that they are building all these play grounds then a kid falls off sues the council have to pay them alot of money and yet keep building more playgrounds. i dont think there is one case where a downhiller has ever sued because they fell off there bike because they stacked a drop, so why should we pay for the mountain, they are at less risk of getting sued from us then those lil kids breaking there arms on playgrounds which are a total waste of money

 

[peachy]

just reading all of this shits the piss out of me, everyone go send a letter to the council about the riding of tracks, get u're friends friends brothers sisters riding friends brothers dogs aunts to send them aswell, theres already a topic with a letter - send that if u're too lazy to write one

 

[kranked]

every brissy rider check out general mtb discussion forum for the thread on a letter which we want to send to council,

ur own version would be greatly appreciated

 

[kranked]

i mean mtbkers will pay to have the tracks maintained and so we can ride them but why do skaties etc get skate parks for free???????

 

[super 8]

Cootha

I can't believe the amount of crap that comes out of some peoples mouths and the amount of disinformation which is percieved as gospel.
If we need a representative from the DH community to attend these meetings with council etc. then Gillian please notify me of the next one. I will attend and try to get as many of my friends who also use Mt Cootha to come along to these meetings/discussions on the use on Mt Cootha (as long as out of working hours), so we can come to a solution. Every message I read has merit its just a matter of presenting these lobby groups with the correct information.

 

[timmo]

I think, firstly, we need to give up the bullshit we keep telling ourselves and others that "mountain bikes do no more damage than walkers" based on research done by and for the IMBA.

That is manifestly not true as a blanket statement - the statement applies mostly to XC riding and maybe DH where trails are designed, built and maintained in accordance with the principles of good track building.

You only have to look at trails like Deanos and Poo Chute and the massive furrows of earth out of them to see that DH is clearly damaging the environment. Yes, it is only a small area, and yes I know we aren't allowed to maintain it at the moment, but we need to accept that there is some damage. Just sprouting the line that "MTBs do no more damage than walkers" gives the environmentalists ammo, as we can all clearly see damage being done.

Of course, having people in there at all means there is damage being done, but we don't say that's bushland you can't go there at all, so there must be such a thing as acceptable damage (or more nicely put "acceptable use")

As MTBers and particularly as DHers, we really need to find a way to limit the damage, maintain the tracks and have the BCC, MTBers, environmentalists, and all interested parties agree on acceptable use for these areas.

That said, I'm not about to stop riding in Coot-tha and Gap Creek, but I'm quite willing to give up Deanos, as I've seen the danger of it a few times. And would be willing to spend half a day a month doing trail maintenance if permitted.

Just my 2c.