Murder or self defense?

[pink poodle]

So, probably starting a bit of a hot thread but this is something that really impacted me:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/emotional...iller-benjamin-batterham-20160327-gns2z6.html

Long story short; career criminal breaks into some blokes house while he and his family are in it. The owner of the found discovers this and an confrontation ensues. In this confrontation the bloke who broke in is put in a choke hold and ends up with a broken neck.

Now the home owner is up for murder.

This is actually probably one of my nightmare situations; finding an intruder in the house while my wife is there.

Many moons ago, I was a trained martial arts instructor and the essence of self defence was to inflict the appropriate amount of force onto your attacker until they are no longer a threat. For some that is verbal intimidation, for others it's maybe a joint lock/restraint and for some who are really going, it's chokes until they wee themselves.

My concern now, is that if I have to go down the most extreme course of action for someone who is either high or just really aggressive, and it goes wrong I would end up being charged for murder.

The reason this is a worry, is that if I don't go down the other path of inflicting less damage, the result could be me being in the right, but dead. I don't think I would get much comfort that I acted "the right way" when I am 6 foot under and the intruder gets charged with manslaughter/murder. Neither would my family.

So hypothetical; I'm at home with my wife, I hear something, I investigate and find an aggressive intruder in my house. Now what?

This is all pretty basic, a trial must take place. This will ensure that due process has been undertaken, and a decision made free of bias. The police/prosection and defense must present the "facts" and an unbiased decision made by an independent authority. I'd want the same if I was the family of the deceased, as would most people.

As for was this self defense or not, the story is pretty grey. But I did find this interesting (but accurate? Who can tell with lawyers?) information:

http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/5022/self-defence-law-in-australia.aspx

Like most people I would he wanting to protect myself and family in such a situation. Hopefully I'm never required to.

I'm local, as is poodle, but social media has claimed so far that the choke hold occurred 300m from the house (that's a long chase), second that charged householder has some drug reputation.

Support for the above is that police have charged him very rapidly, also that no application for bail was made today and its adjourned for quite a few weeks. I can tell you, if it were me, a lawyer would be damn well making a case for bail for me rather than remanded in custody.

Either way a scumbag is dead, and his large extended family seem to be all victims now.....

Interesting part of town.

 

[MARKL]

I'm local, as is poodle, but social media has claimed so far that the choke hold occurred 300m from the house (that's a long chase)....

The general gist seems to be the perp was found inside the daughters room...

This is the crux, if the dude is in your daughter's room you have a reasonable defense to use whatever force you deem necessary, if you have chased him 300m down the road you will find it hard to prove that you are still defending yourself or your family...at some point you are moving from defense to attack. Either way a shattering event for all involved, no winners.

 

[stirk]

Someone who has just gone through an event such as a home invasion involving a dodgy prick standing over your daughter, taking harsh action inside or outside the home would not even cross your mind. You'd chase the prick down and deal out justice. In doing so you are defending against any future actions the perp may do.

How many chunts are being released on parole only to return the favour by recommitting their favorite offence.

 

[ajay]

This is the crux, if the dude is in your daughter's room you have a reasonable defense to use whatever force you deem necessary, if you have chased him 300m down the road you will find it hard to prove that you are still defending yourself or your family...at some point you are moving from defense to attack. Either way a shattering event for all involved, no winners.

Yep.

Someone who has just gone through an event such as a home invasion involving a dodgy prick standing over your daughter, taking harsh action inside or outside the home would not even cross your mind. You'd chase the prick down and deal out justice. In doing so you are defending against any future actions the perp may do.

How many chunts are being released on parole only to return the favour by recommitting their favorite offence.

I don't think there's many people who'd disagree with the sentiment, but just imagine the rednecks...

 

[link1896]

Someone who has just gone through an event such as a home invasion involving a dodgy prick standing over your daughter, taking harsh action inside or outside the home would not even cross your mind. You'd chase the prick down and deal out justice. In doing so you are defending against any future actions the perp may do.

How many chunts are being released on parole only to return the favour by recommitting their favorite offence.

Something doesn't quite add up in the Newcastle incident. More will be revealed at the next hearing.

We had a meth head try and brake in with only the wife home, she was petrified, stuck in a wheel chair, pregnant. Cops were called, she accurately reported a man was screaming "I'm going to kill you". Cops took 30 mins to appear, by then he'd gone and I had arrived back home.

6 months later he was convicted of a serious assault of someone else and given a 12 months custodial sentence ( wife instantly spotted him in the news by his appearance)

If this happened when I was home, I guess you'd let him go to town on a door or window, but once inside the house, fair game. As a cyclist, the legs are our weapon.

How do you judge the appropriate actions against a meth head who has no perception of reality, and doesn't feel pain? I'd sure fear for my life in such a situation

 

[fimpBIKES]

lived in that area of town for a few years about a decade ago.

always been my experience that unless you are caught up in the druggy side of society you have nothing to worry about.



there is definitely more to the story than meets the eye. plenty of dodgy things (ice, herion etc) going on around that area and the whole town is on edge/desperate due to the mining bust.

I know if I woke to find someone in my daughters room i'd rather be up for possible man(scum)slaughter than definitely having little girl compromised!

 

[MARKL]

Someone who has just gone through an event such as a home invasion involving a dodgy prick standing over your daughter, taking harsh action inside or outside the home would not even cross your mind. You'd chase the prick down and deal out justice. In doing so you are defending against any future actions the perp may do.

How many chunts are being released on parole only to return the favour by recommitting their favorite offence.

Don't disagree, someone lays a hand on my daughter...they wouldn't make it to the front door

 

[pink poodle]

Something doesn't quite add up in the Newcastle incident. More will be revealed at the next hearing.

We had a meth head try and brake in with only the wife home, she was petrified, stuck in a wheel chair, pregnant. Cops were called, she accurately reported a man was screaming "I'm going to kill you". Cops took 30 mins to appear, by then he'd gone and I had arrived back home.

6 months later he was convicted of a serious assault of someone else and given a 12 months custodial sentence ( wife instantly spotted him in the news by his appearance)

If this happened when I was home, I guess you'd let him go to town on a door or window, but once inside the house, fair game. As a cyclist, the legs are our weapon.

How do you judge the appropriate actions against a meth head who has no perception of reality, and doesn't feel pain? I'd sure fear for my life in such a situation

Do you detach your leg and swing it like a club? Or use it as a thrusting weapon? Fighting in a confined space can be rather tricky, especially with a much larger opponent and not being able to use your agility to the advantage.

Here are a few pointers for home security from a well informed individual...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxfkx4FD4zk

 

[blacksp20]

Somewhat similar thing happened in Sydney some years back when an armed security guard was bashed within an inch of her life by some lowlife in a carpark, if my memory serves me. When she managed to drag herself up off the ground, the grub was walking away and she shot him, removing him from the gene pool.

She was charged with murder but I believe she was acquitted by a jury.

The devil is always in the details and the media will not know them all. There is much more to the story that only the investigating Police will know.

In saying that, even though he may have caused the fatal injury away from the home and therefore may be guilty of murder, it will ultimately come down to whether or not a jury will convict him.

I have also seen, and definitely do not agree with, petitions online to release the guy who is in custody. Murder is one of the most serious crimes in our society and I would be confident in saying that the Police wouldn't be throwing that charge around without having some pretty good evidence to back it up. Everyone is basing their decision on the innocence/guilt of this man from what the media has reported, which will not be even close to the full story.

 

[link1896]

Do you detach your leg and swing it like a club? Or use it as a thrusting weapon? Fighting in a confined space can be rather tricky, especially with a much larger opponent and not being able to use your agility to the advantage.

Here are a few pointers for home security from a well informed individual...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxfkx4FD4zk

Nfi, hopefully I'm never in the situation.

Jousting stick please.

 

[pink poodle]

Nfi, hopefully I'm never in the situation.

Jousting stick please.

It's unfortunate you can use your's in close quarters. I'm an open field operator...for everyone's safety.

 

[dave3210go]

Some years back a sydney security guard was run down by a hotel robber, in their getaway, she got a fractured skull but still shot the fleeing culprit dead. Long story short the gal eventually had to beat a murder charge... omfg how damn hard it is to just consciously respond to defend against a crime in motion and where there is clear and present danger. He was "escaping", and therefore not a continuing threat, or some shyte like that, in the same act that cracked her skull ..baby jeezus didn't see that coming.

Hey, she mighta still died yet, true while that perps getaway bid was looking more clear ..what with her being run down along the way. And all. But she stopped him permanent.

Rings similar bells, different tune.

 

[OscarWhitbread]

Something doesn't quite add up in the Newcastle incident. More will be revealed at the next hearing.

We had a meth head try and brake in with only the wife home, she was petrified, stuck in a wheel chair, pregnant. Cops were called, she accurately reported a man was screaming "I'm going to kill you". Cops took 30 mins to appear, by then he'd gone and I had arrived back home.

6 months later he was convicted of a serious assault of someone else and given a 12 months custodial sentence ( wife instantly spotted him in the news by his appearance)

If this happened when I was home, I guess you'd let him go to town on a door or window, but once inside the house, fair game. As a cyclist, the legs are our weapon.

How do you judge the appropriate actions against a meth head who has no perception of reality, and doesn't feel pain? I'd sure fear for my life in such a situation

This bit scares me, after seeing footage of paramedics and police trying to deal with ice affected people I'm not sure what you'd do if confronted by someone like that in your own home. Fine when there are 5 burly cops there to hold them down but it seems that you need to dish out a fair bit of pain to even just slow down someone who is drug affected like that. I sure as hell don't won't to live with killing somebody, but I also don't want to live with the trauma of what they could possibly do to myself or family. No real winners either way.

 

[si618]

Here are a few pointers for home security from a well informed individual...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxfkx4FD4zk

I normally keep my old cricket bat (SS Jumbo FTW!) next to our bed, along with a 9 iron.

Maybe I should add one of these to the collection?

Looks like machetes are legal in SA.

 

[pink poodle]

I normally keep my old cricket bat (SS Jumbo FTW!) next to our bed, along with a 9 iron.

Maybe I should add one of these to the collection?

Looks like machetes are legal in SA.

I've got a few cold steel products, they are great value for money. The gladius looks pretty good for defending against cardboard, zombies, and farm animals...I'm sure George Orwell would've had one!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KD67W6wyr8w

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zX_FjgiEJAg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XHsmZutP3GQ

And remember...you can't swing a bat well in the hallway or doorway, and they are useless for thrusting.

 

[Calvin27]

I normally keep my old cricket bat (SS Jumbo FTW!) next to our bed, along with a 9 iron.
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Do you even ride bro?!? It should be a reynolds 531 piece for melee and some spare used rotors or chainrings for long range attacks. I haven't figured out how to make a weapon out of flat pedals yet, but I'd bet they do serious damage.

 

[shmity]

Do you even ride bro?!? It should be a reynolds 531 piece for melee and some spare used rotors or chainrings for long range attacks. I haven't figured out how to make a weapon out of flat pedals yet, but I'd bet they do serious damage.

String them across doorways at ankle height for early warning systems.

 

[pink poodle]

Do you even ride bro?!? It should be a reynolds 531 piece for melee and some spare used rotors or chainrings for long range attacks. I haven't figured out how to make a weapon out of flat pedals yet, but I'd bet they do serious damage.

They work in 4 ways:
- Range attack as a throwing weapon
- mid range attached to a chain like a flail
- Mid range on a pole like a mace (eg seat post or handle bars)
- close range in the hand like cat's claws (my favourite).

 

[si618]

Do you even ride bro?!? It should be a reynolds 531 piece for melee and some spare used rotors or chainrings for long range attacks. I haven't figured out how to make a weapon out of flat pedals yet, but I'd bet they do serious damage.

All my bike gear is downstairs. My better half would pinch it for her arty creations if any were left lying around.

Do I ride? Check out the rotor wear bro!



Think you've convinced me about the gladius poodle.

 

[pink poodle]

All my bike gear is downstairs. My better half would pinch it for her arty creations if any were left lying around.

Do I ride? Check out the rotor wear bro!

View attachment 326642

Think you've convinced me about the gladius poodle.

You could always get something bigger (think Cold Steel Katana machete or 2 handed kukri https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=juk3rTfjR8k) then learn to half sword for close quarters and still have the power in more open spaces

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0L9i7Ne6anU

* may not be useful for self defense outside of the abattoir. Those junks of meat look pretty dangerous!