New rules for cyclists in NSW - Safe passing distances, but massive fines as well....

[pharmaboy]

Problem is cyclists have had miniscule fines and almost no policing of existing laws that a culture of "it's dumb as dogshit" to make me wait has evolved. Riders attitudes are the problem, not the fines.

Attitudes are always a problem I agree, still, the safety concern is cyclists been killed by cars - none of the other changes will do anything for safety - it's been done to placate car drivers who now have to give a metre.

Never been chatted by a cop, don't ride the road, so none of it matters to me - but I still care how others are impacted by govt, especially overly draconian govt

 

[John U]

I see running a red light as one of the worst offences any road user can do, it's a flagrant "Fuck You" to other road user and pedestrians alike. I have no problem with the increase, I'd say it was more than 5 years overdue.
Problem is cyclists have had miniscule fines and almost no policing of existing laws that a culture of "it's dumb as dogshit" to make me wait has evolved. Riders attitudes are the problem, not the fines.

I think in Vic the fines are the same for driver/cyclist when (caught) running a red light. I thought it had been like this for a while.

 

[Knuckles]

Knuckles, get a grip one or 2 incidents reported by the Tele do not public policy make.

all the big issues here - the biggest impact is going to be on helmet use - it will increase of course as a percentage of cyclists, but probably by simply reducing cyclists.

So pedestrian are walking on one side of the road on a crossing, and a cyclist cruises on the other side of the road at 15kmh and the appropriate response is a $400 fine?

why not just throw them in prison for a week....

And you wonder why drivers have the kill em all attitude to cyclists. You do understand how road rules work? Like I said, if cyclists want the same rights as drivers, they need to adhere to the same rules. It's all or nothing. Start making conditional allowances, and the whole thing becomes an even bigger one used cluster fuck than it already is. Don't want to obey the road rules? Stay off the road, dunna get simpler than that.

I wasn't using those examples as a basis for support of policy, which hasn't actually changed, just the penalties increased. Merely to point out how idiotic your comment, that cyclists are more vulnerable in a collision than a pedestrian, was.

By the way, what's the cut off? How many pedestrians need to be killed by cyclists before enforcing the rule is justified, 2 a year, 7, 50?

 

[Duane]

Attitudes are always a problem I agree, still, the safety concern is cyclists been killed by cars - none of the other changes will do anything for safety - it's been done to placate car drivers who now have to give a metre.

Never been chatted by a cop, don't ride the road, so none of it matters to me - but I still care how others are impacted by govt, especially overly draconian govt

Yes, alot of drivers attitudes towards cyclists were already bad enough, for some I don't see it getting better. Hopefully for some of the more ignorant drivers it may just make them a little more aware. An advertising campaign may have been a better way. I remember some in the past, but it seems today's government is more about collecting revenue than spending money on education and awareness.

 

[steve jobs' pancreas]

In Victoria it is legal for you to ride accompanying your children on the footpath. Well it was last time I checked, as I agree, I do and will continue to until he is older.

the boy is 14 now so I think he has to ride on the road

At times I do ride on the main road with him, just as an attempt to learn him some road craft. Like, don't ride in the gutter or real close to it, give yourself some room, don't wiggle around, try and ride in a straight predictable line, watch out for parked cars, give em some space and look for movement in them (like a passenger that might wanna open the door). Stuff like that.

Maybe its helicopter parenting, I used to ride on the main road all the time at 14 year old, but I did get cleaned up by a car that I reckon was my fault, was pretty lucky with that one.

 

[gnarly_rider]

I think in Vic the fines are the same for driver/cyclist when (caught) running a red light. I thought it had been like this for a while.

I think you are correct, $379, see https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/~/m...d-rules/201516_regulated_penalties.ashx?la=en

Page 5 for Bicycles 'Fail to obey traffic lights' vs p12 for Cars.

I am stunned that the fine for running red lights on a bike in NSW is currently so miniscule.

 

[pharmaboy]

jOhn, yes, fines in vict are equal.

Incidentally, I don't see cyclists running red lights any mor than cars, what I do see from cyclists, is turning left on reds occasionally and particularly starting off early before the light turns green.

This last one I do at my local set of lights between me and the trails, but only in one direction - that's because the road narrows when someone parks on the road ahead and the entry is also very narrow, so to keep myself safe I make sure I'm in front (and no one tries to overtake me as it narrows), and sometimes it's safest to be half way across before my light turns green.

There would be plenty of places like that for a cyclist where the shoulder only starts on the other side, so cyclists take off early to get out of the way of motorists and into a safe place

 

[Knuckles]

starting off early before the light turns green.

This last one I do at my local set of lights between me and the trails, but only in one direction - that's because the road narrows when someone parks on the road ahead and the entry is also very narrow, so to keep myself safe I make sure I'm in front (and no one tries to overtake me as it narrows), and sometimes it's safest to be half way across before my light turns green.

There would be plenty of places like that for a cyclist where the shoulder only starts on the other side, so cyclists take off early to get out of the way of motorists and into a safe place

Sounds like NSW is still in the dark ages with respect to cycling. In Victoria, a cyclist is legally allowed to ride to the stop line and sit in the centre of the lane through the intersection before moving left once on the road propper. They are currently in the process of putting bike boxes in the left lane of all signaled intersections. I have one at the exit of my dead end Street.

 

[pharmaboy]

Sounds like NSW is still in the dark ages with respect to cycling. In Victoria, a cyclist is legally allowed to ride to the stop line and sit in the centre of the lane through the intersection before moving left once on the road propper. They are currently in the process of putting bike boxes in the left lane of all signaled intersections. I have one at the exit of my dead end Street.

I've only ridden twice in Melbourne and the facilities for bikes are incredible - and the number of cyclists.

And that is the difference. Vict has for a long time been happy to promote cycling, NSW seems to actively discourage cycling, hence my view on these laws that seem to be a dog whistle response to the idiots who listen to Alan jones and the other numpties - ie we'll crack down on those aberrant lunatic fanatical cyclists, but you'll also have to give them a metre on the roads......

 

[Dozer]

Dude, do you not get that those fines are there because cars are dangerous, and when a car goes thorugh a red light it can very likely kill someone. Same for a pedestrian crossing - having a cyclist stop at a crossing while you are waiting at the footpath is dumb as a dogshit (it's happened to me once in port Douglas - it was rediculous). . Bicycles are not dangerous to others - the cyclist is on an equal footing if not worse than the pedestrian. Laws designed for safety should not be used for punitive reasons.

All of the measures will reduce cycling not promote it. If you had any background on previous MO of Gay, you would know this is the aim.

I think the fines are being thrown around as an attempt to scare people into obeying some of the laws and avoiding the fines by being more aware when riding around.
For what it's worth, I've been run into by a few folks on bikes and have flattened a few dudes in other sports and I sympathize, I wouldn't want to risk walking onto a crossing seeing "that thing" coming at me but I would assume he knows to stop for me.

 

[Knuckles]

I've only ridden twice in Melbourne and the facilities for bikes are incredible - and the number of cyclists.

And that is the difference. Vict has for a long time been happy to promote cycling, NSW seems to actively discourage cycling, hence my view on these laws that seem to be a dog whistle response to the idiots who listen to Alan jones and the other numpties - ie we'll crack down on those aberrant lunatic fanatical cyclists, but you'll also have to give them a metre on the roads......

Probably reflects in our differing views on the rule changes too. My interpretation is of an attempt to make it equitable for all road users, as are most of the efforts here.

 

[si618]

By the way, what's the cut off? How many pedestrians need to be killed by cyclists before enforcing the rule is justified, 2 a year, 7, 50?

I guess it's all relative, but this study shows that in Australia:

... the risk of a pedestrian being struck down by a bicyclist and killed is currently less than the risk of being struck by lightning (0.1 chances of fatality per million person years), 23 times less likely than tripping on a footpath or roadway (1.15 chances of fatality per million person years), 200 times less likely being involved in an airline crash (10 chances of fatality per million person years), and 700 times less likely than being struck and killed by a motor vehicle (35 chances of fatality per million person years).

Seems like we'd be far better off focusing on reducing the risk for pedestrians from motor vehicles rather than bicyclists. A good way to do that is getting more people to ride bikes

 

[John U]

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...ter-officer-allegedly-pushes-cyclist-off-bike

nsw-police-launch-investigation-after-officer-allegedly-pushes-cyclist-off-bike

 

[Knuckles]

I guess it's all relative, but this study shows that in Australia:



Seems like we'd be far better off focusing on reducing the risk for pedestrians from motor vehicles rather than riders. A good way to do that is getting more people to ride bikes

Nice, but the risk of cyclists/pedestrian collision fatalities will increase with any increase of cyclists on the road. Unless it is coupled with measures to separate the two users, similar to automobile/pedestrian separation.

I wasn't claiming cyclists were mowing down pedestrians willy-nilly, it was in response to a claim cyclists were more vulnerable to injury/fatality in collisions.

As for those ridiculous "less likely than" comparisons, what a stupid "statistic" to include in a study.....youre less likely to be killed by a shark than lightening, but twats still expect shark nets, patrols and culls to prevent the odd attack that does happen (usually to some bong sucking, welfare cheating surfer knob), so how is enforcing existing, universal road rules such a burden on society?

Maybe we should look into locking this mass murdering bastard, lightening away behind bars...

 

[climberman]

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...ter-officer-allegedly-pushes-cyclist-off-bike

nsw-police-launch-investigation-after-officer-allegedly-pushes-cyclist-off-bike

How safe would a licence have made that guy! Luck the police are behind cyclists.

 

[pharmaboy]

How safe would a licence have made that guy! Luck the police are behind cyclists.

Officer has obviously had a BMX bandit type allude him previously, seriously effecting his feelings of manliness so the obvious solution is to take it out on a different member of the public. Unfortunately the account is totally believable.

Edit - actually a whole lot of cops on bikes would help a lot - increase compliance and like the officer on a beat, it provides a more accessible view of police

 

[si618]

Nice, but the risk of cyclists/pedestrian collision fatalities will increase with any increase of cyclists on the road. Unless it is coupled with measures to separate the two users, similar to automobile/pedestrian separation.

Which is exactly what (should) happens when you get more people riding bikes.

I wasn't claiming cyclists were mowing down pedestrians willy-nilly, it was in response to a claim cyclists were more vulnerable to injury/fatality in collisions.

Fair enough, I'd have thought their vulnerability was about the same.

As for those ridiculous "less likely than" comparisons, what a stupid "statistic" to include in a study.....youre less likely to be killed by a shark than lightening, but twats still expect shark nets, patrols and culls to prevent the odd attack that does happen (usually to some bong sucking, welfare cheating surfer knob),

I just included those to show the difference in risk between bikes and motor vehicles with respect to pedestrians. There is a huge difference and sometimes it's hard to visualise with numbers alone, like the odds of winning that US lottery; about as much chance as getting struck by lightning whilst being eaten by a shark...

so how is enforcing existing, universal road rules such a burden on society?

As a previous post mentioned, it would be nice to see some evidence to back up these changes. How many riders are giving fake names and addresses when pulled over by police for running red lights or not wearing a helmet? i.e. Is the increase in fines and compulsory ID requirement evidence based or political?

 

[pink poodle]

I am truly astounded at the amount of negative response to a simple thing like carrying your ID while riding. A photo of your license on your phone is adequate and everyone takes their phone riding yeah?
If you don't obey these simple rules and are more concerned about getting done for not carrying identification then you should absolutely not be on a bike.

• Not a wearing helmet (from $71 to $319)
• Running a red light (from $71 to $425)
• Riding dangerously (from $71 to $425)
• Holding onto a moving vehicle (from $71 to $319)
• Not stopping at children’s/pedestrian crossing ($71 to $425)

OK...I reckon I have more trouble (while riding) with the cops on here than anyone else. The ID thing is bullshit. It is creating an unnecessary reason for the cops to pull cyclists over and hassle them. Sure it might he handy if they want a nonconfrontational reason to put over a suspected drug mule, but the further invasion on my privacy/liberty is the issue. Not the rules nor fines. Everybody should make it their business to resist policing for the sake of policing. Everytime I'm pulled over they make a little report and file it. "pink poodle pulled over...searched..." etc. And I know if I was a lazy police officer I'd be wanting to sound busy and add "resisted" "verbal abuse" or whatever else I felt made me look good. And everytime they ring in to look me up, the file grows. Sure I've done nothing wrong every time, but...that means there shouldn't be an everytime.

Are you just trolling? Hard to tell?

There has been a pedestrian killed in Victoria as the result from being collided into from a road cyclist who was running a red light.

I think if someone is that impatient to wait for a traffic signal that is there for pedestrian safety (my 10 yr old is a regular pedestrian at such crossings and probably doesn't keep a lookout for impatient angry commuters), then perhaps they need an attitude adjustment.

I run red lights a the time. Fuck them. My Strava time is too important. But not as important as my safety. You bet I pull up and make sure I'm not about to he run down or hit someone. If the coast is clear I am not waiting around for a green light, I'm an adult and can make a sensible decision using common sense.

I stop at the lights when I'm on the road more out of fear of retribution than a desire to do the right thing.

I ride on the footpath when I'm riding with my kids, reckon I'll just cop the fine rather than have two of them ride with me on the pacific highway and the 9 year old on the footpath.

I'm a fucking enigma I tells ya !!!!

the boy is 14 now so I think he has to ride on the road

At times I do ride on the main road with him, just as an attempt to learn him some road craft. Like, don't ride in the gutter or real close to it, give yourself some room, don't wiggle around, try and ride in a straight predictable line, watch out for parked cars, give em some space and look for movement in them (like a passenger that might wanna open the door). Stuff like that.

Maybe its helicopter parenting, I used to ride on the main road all the time at 14 year old, but I did get cleaned up by a car that I reckon was my fault, was pretty lucky with that one.

You're doing the right thing. Nobody in a car is looking. But gradual introduction and coaching is the way forward. And I'm pretty sure you can ride once footpath with under 14s.

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...ter-officer-allegedly-pushes-cyclist-off-bike

nsw-police-launch-investigation-after-officer-allegedly-pushes-cyclist-off-bike

This happened to me. Justification given? You were riding away from us...hey fucked it is night time, you're in an unmarked car, and that is my house there. Maybe use your brain. Well that wasnt the response he wanted so my backpack was emptied and thrown across the street, same with my wallet including cards and cash, torch shone in my eyes, all while his buddy held me. Lucky I had my id.

 

[Dozer]

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...ter-officer-allegedly-pushes-cyclist-off-bike

nsw-police-launch-investigation-after-officer-allegedly-pushes-cyclist-off-bike

That's a crack up. A guy rides around in peak hour traffic without a skid lid on, casually rides through a red light then gets punted by a copper. Let's assume the guy either didn't hear the Policeman or ignored him and the alleged push from the Policeman was actually a tap on the shoulder to get the stoned fuck to snap to today. He falls off because he's obviously a mong. Either way, I'd piss myself seeing that sitting in mundane traffic.

OK...I reckon I have more trouble (while riding) with the cops on here than anyone else. The ID thing is bullshit. It is creating an unnecessary reason for the cops to pull cyclists over and hassle them. Sure it might he handy if they want a nonconfrontational reason to put over a suspected drug mule, but the further invasion on my privacy/liberty is the issue. Not the rules nor fines. Everybody should make it their business to resist policing for the sake of policing. Everytime I'm pulled over they make a little report and file it. "pink poodle pulled over...searched..." etc. And I know if I was a lazy police officer I'd be wanting to sound busy and add "resisted" "verbal abuse" or whatever else I felt made me look good. And everytime they ring in to look me up, the file grows. Sure I've done nothing wrong every time, but...that means there shouldn't be an everytime.

Yeah look, I still don't see the hassle. If we lived in a society of total anarchy then anything we have that we cherish would be threatened by those looking to take it at anytime. The things that the fines have been raised for a obviously an issue and if it isn't the Police's job to enforce it, who's is it? The outrage that ensues in the old days when a roadie runs a red and cops a Coke can is long gone, you can't deal justice like that anymore without being made out to be a criminal! :yuck:

 

[Haakon]

That's a crack up. A guy rides around in peak hour traffic without a skid lid on, casually rides through a red light then gets punted by a copper. Let's assume the guy either didn't hear the Policeman or ignored him and the alleged push from the Policeman was actually a tap on the shoulder to get the stoned fuck to snap to today. He falls off because he's obviously a mong. Either way, I'd piss myself seeing that sitting in mundane traffic. :

Whilst I'm inclined to agree if it was just a dips hit not paying attention, it is nontheless poor form of the coppers and they should be seriously ficked over for it. You dont come beside a cyclist and contact them - if they're not stopping you get ahead of them and block their way.

I would never carry ID on a bike in NSW on principal now. Fuck them. You are required to carry a licence when driving because you need a licence to drive, you are not required to have a licence to ride a bike. Or a skateboard. Or a kayak. Or a fcuking pogo stick. You are not required to carry ID full stop.