Newly Released Bikes General

[beeb]

It's all about the negative reach stems.

In all seriousness I can understand the steeper seat angle trend (to a point) in particularly longer-travel bikes where the combined impacts of long wheelbase, ever slacker head angles, and lots of sag makes climbing the thing feel like trying to steer an oil tanker. BUT it's insane how quickly everyone has pretty much just accepted that "steeper is better" without qualification.

Snap! lol

I think a lot of it comes down to it being easier on the body if you're not fit & flexible.

 

[leitch]

Snap! lol

I think a lot of it comes down to it being easier on the body if you're not fit & flexible.

It'd be interesting to see brands start quoting ESTA at sag. Road bikes have essentially settled on 72-74 deg as the optimal seat angle for pedalling dynamics and handling etc depending on frame size (and excluding TT bikes). I wonder how many of the big 170mm travel enduro bikes running 30% sag and 78 deg STAs are ending up around that mark in real terms.

 

[rockmoose]

Welcome to the future.

Sent from my SM-A205YN using Tapatalk

 

[Ultra Lord]

It'd be interesting to see brands start quoting ESTA at sag. Road bikes have essentially settled on 72-74 deg as the optimal seat angle for pedalling dynamics and handling etc depending on frame size (and excluding TT bikes). I wonder how many of the big 170mm travel enduro bikes running 30% sag and 78 deg STAs are ending up around that mark in real terms.

Road bikes are also required to have certain seat angles because of UCI geometry rules.

Gimme that steep ST, having my arse hang out past the back wheel on a climb sucks. I’m like 80% leg, I’m yet to own a bike that doesn’t need me to actively push the front down on a climb which sucks cause my L5/S1 is herniated.

healthy people with normal legs need not apply I suppose.

 

[creaky]

Road bikes are also required to have certain seat angles because of UCI geometry rules.

Gimme that steep ST, having my arse hang out past the back wheel on a climb sucks. I’m like 80% leg, I’m yet to own a bike that doesn’t need me to actively push the front down on a climb which sucks cause my L5/S1 is herniated.

healthy people with normal legs need not apply I suppose.

But the point @leitch is making is that, with a rear sag at 30% and front sag at 15%, is the sagged "ESTA" on a MTB actually near 73deg anyway i.e. just like a roadie which doesn't sag.

In other terms, have traditional STA mtbs from 5 years ago actually been way slacker than a road bike was anyway when you're sitting down pedaling?

 

[leitch]

@Ultra Lord @creaky both right. I'd forgotten about the UCI 5cm rule but yes the implication being that we say a dual sus MTB has a STA of 74 or 78 degrees but that number actually has no bearing on reality as it's impossible to maintain that geometry with rider weight applied unless you replace the shock with a metal rod.

 

[Ultra Lord]

In other terms, have traditional STA mtbs from 5 years ago actually been way slacker than a road bike was anyway when you're sitting down pedaling?

Of course they were. Hop on a roadie then hop on a old 150mm trail bike and the difference was noticeable. Point the trail bike uphill and it only got worse.

 

[pink poodle]

I find something odd about extra long top tubes but then saddle slammed forward

It's an annoying design if you spend much time in the air.

 

[The Reverend]

Road bikes are also required to have certain seat angles because of UCI geometry rules.

Gimme that steep ST, having my arse hang out past the back wheel on a climb sucks. I’m like 80% leg, I’m yet to own a bike that doesn’t need me to actively push the front down on a climb which sucks cause my L5/S1 is herniated.

healthy people with normal legs need not apply I suppose.

I'm reasonably flexible but the combination of slack STA (especially with the geometry lies we're fed between actual and effective STA), the industry being convinced that short chainstays are excellent, along with the same sized rear centre regardless of frame size means when you're tall you always end up with your butt over the rear axle on climbs.

Steep STA works ace I find (within reason).

 

[nzhumpy]

Wow...nobody saw this coming.

Hot on the heels of the much vaunted Heckler, spy photos have emerged of the new Santa Cruz Remedy being put through its paces...



Seriously though, anyone lost a Remedy, they guy riding this looked suss as not sure you'd want it back though to be honest.

 

[leitch]

*Remed-e

 

[nzhumpy]

 

[beeb]

... they guy riding this looked suss as not sure you'd want it back though to be honest.

@tobbogonist ?

 

[tobbogonist]

@tobbogonist ?

I don't think we could offer this bloke anything he hasn't already got hanging off those handlebars.

 

[LPG]

I'm reasonably flexible but the combination of slack STA (especially with the geometry lies we're fed between actual and effective STA), the industry being convinced that short chainstays are excellent, along with the same sized rear centre regardless of frame size means when you're tall you always end up

But the point @leitch is making is that, with a rear sag at 30% and front sag at 15%, is the sagged "ESTA" on a MTB actually near 73deg anyway i.e. just like a roadie which doesn't sag.

In other terms, have traditional STA mtbs from 5 years ago actually been way slacker than a road bike was anyway when you're sitting down pedaling?

And to make things more complex, hardtails result in everything steepening with sag, FS typically slacken with sag. How many times have buyers and designers ignored that?

I'm very happy that my bird shows sagged and sagged geo. I haven't seen it anywhere else.

 

[creaky]

And to make things more complex, hardtails result in everything steepening with sag, FS typically slacken with sag. How many times have buyers and designers ignored that?

I'm very happy that my bird shows sagged and sagged geo. I haven't seen it anywhere else.

For sure. These super steep STA hardtails around must be close to 80deg once you actually sit on the saddle?

 

[leitch]

For sure. These super steep STA hardtails around must be close to 80deg once you actually sit on the saddle?

This shit is getting too complex

You measure sag standing on the pedals, which moves your weight forward relative to seated. Sitting on the saddle you probably only get ~5% sag or something anyway so who knows.

 

[pink poodle]

Wow...nobody saw this coming.

Hot on the heels of the much vaunted Heckler, spy photos have emerged of the new Santa Cruz Remedy being put through its paces...



Seriously though, anyone lost a Remedy, they guy riding this looked suss as not sure you'd want it back though to be honest.

I love this new direction her Santa Cruz are moving in.

 

[hifiandmtb]

Good God!

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-check-ralf-holleis-moorhuhn-129.html

 

[pink poodle]

That's an awkward reflection on the chain stay.

Bike looks from outer space.