Plastic bags, climate change, renewable energy,

Haakon said:
Thats just because people do the usual "take it to the dealer to get bent over on prices". There are plenty of sources of reconditioned Prius pack vendors - its quite popular in the US in particular to pick up an older Prius with a dead battery for bugger all and do the battery in them. Makes for a super cheap commuter!

edit - 10 seconds on google https://thehybridbattery.com.au
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One of the issues with cars is the ownership. Once we get autonomous cars with subscription based ownership the issue with what to do with batteries will become less painful. For the time being, in terms of the 1 car to 1 person model, petrol cars are still a few years ahead.
 
Haakon said:
...This is part of why i struggle to care about aboriginal stuff...
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Raises an interesting point. I do care but at the same time its not only rich advanced civilisations that destroy or change the environment. I think there are plenty of examples of primitive cultures that have eaten all manner of things to extinction (eg. Aust megafauna) or have radically changed the landscape (like through the use of fire).

Rich or poor, advanced or primitive we just can't help ourselves.
 
Flow-Rider said:
My next door neighbour can get recycled batteries at trade price and not worth him buying them.
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This because using recycled batteries is not mandatory, or costed as such.

As long as simply buying a NEW battery is similar to the cost of a RECYCLED battery, we'll just end up chucking batteries away.

A new battery creates a shit-tonne of CO2. The end. If it ends up saving tailpipe (or equivalent) emissions over its lifetime, that's questionable.
 
Haakon said:
Its damage mitigation now, not avoidance.
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Buying a Tesla Model 3 doesn't mitigate anything. Which is my point.

And to save confusion - define mitigation? Will we use a Telsa Model 3 as a sea breakwater wall or for cloud seeding or to transport refugees from now-uninhabitable countries?
 
Flow-Rider said:
Yep, not worth keeping a Toyota Prius when it gets old because of a dead battery even though the car itself is still mechanically sound.
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Not looked into locally, I do know it’s economic to rescue old Priuie in the US with reco packs.

But they mostly seem to last the life of the car, plenty of conventional cars get binned due to economics when they’re still serviceable...
 
hifiandmtb said:
Buying a Tesla Model 3 doesn't mitigate anything. Which is my point.

And to save confusion - define mitigation? Will we use a Telsa Model 3 as a sea breakwater wall or for cloud seeding or to transport refugees from non-uninhabitable countries?
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Mitigation is avoidance of the problem. As opposed to adaptation.

Hastening/encouraging a switch to EV ASAP will possibly probably mitigate some of the effects. It’s a small part of damage control but one worth doing anyway.

It also has other effects such as air pollution which stops so many people dying in cities. Oh. Crap...
 
hifiandmtb said:
As long as simply buying a NEW battery is similar to the cost of a RECYCLED battery, we'll just end up chucking batteries away.
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I said that ages ago on here but it can't be cheap to the environment to manufacturer a complete car for the sake of a battery pack. I can't remember what the age limit is but cab companies are require to update their car every so many years and you end with all these Priuses that when the battery goes on them they end up at the wreckers or scrap metal yards.
 
Flow-Rider said:
I said that ages ago on here but it can't be cheap to the environment to manufacturer a complete car for the sake of a battery pack. I can't remember what the age limit is but cab companies are require to update their car every so many years and you end with all these Priuses that when the battery goes on them they end up at the wreckers or scrap metal yards.
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My understanding from talking to cabbies here and in the US using hybrid toyotas is that the batteries are not a weak point. Apart from failures due to abuse or manufacturing faults, they last the life of even taxis.
 
Haakon said:
Mitigation is avoidance of the problem. As opposed to adaptation.

Hastening/encouraging a switch to EV ASAP will possibly probably mitigate some of the effects. It’s a small part of damage control but one worth doing anyway.

It also has other effects such as air pollution which stops so many people dying in cities. Oh. Crap...
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Nah, not buying it. I need some facts, outcomes, goals.

Rolling out EVs for the sake of it is not scientific.
 
hifiandmtb said:
Nah, not buying it.
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Hmmm. What am I missing? Can’t stay with ICE as it’s got nowhere to go for emissions reductions. EVs do.

How fast things change is another question, but EV at least gives the option of reducing emissions.
 
Haakon said:
My understanding from talking to cabbies here and in the US using hybrid toyotas is that the batteries are not a weak point. Apart from failures due to abuse or manufacturing faults, they last the life of even taxis.
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The new generation Prius is a lot better than the first I've been told. Cab drivers get a lot of miles out of them but the cars are well serviced, most decent cab companies have a complete stock of replacement parts that wear out all the time and battery packs are one.

My point was that you have to throw away a good Prius when it gets old because the battery pack replacement exceeds the value of the car, the car may not be used as a cab anymore because of reliability issues or aesthetics but for Joe Blow that does 15 000kms a year it will be fine.
 
Haakon said:
Hmmm. What am I missing?
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This:


Screen-Shot-2019-01-21-at-10.19.35-am.png


Show me how EVs will produce the sharp downturn required in CO2 emissions.

EVs are a simply a commercial capitalist enterprise, they don't give us the radical & immediate reductions we need.

I agree - if we had 100 years to gently resolve this situation, EVs can be considered part of the solution.

But when this is true, we are just playing with ourselves:

354615
 
Haakon said:
Mitigation is avoidance of the problem. As opposed to adaptation.
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Oh, and:

354616


Mitigation is not avoidance. It's a form of adaptation.

Solving CC would mean capping temp increase to 1.5c. If that's what we would like to call "solving". 1.5 degrees is still calamitous in the long term (mainly due to SLR).

Humanity needs to choose a temp increase figure they are prepared to accept & initiate programs to meet this objective.

At this stage, owning an EV means "I like to say I care but all I care about is keeping my personal transportation device".
 
EVs are a part. Just a small one. Certainly not arguing with the scale of the task!

Lots of big tickets items to roll out #notachance
 
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