Reduced numbers in XC/marathon events? Why?
- Thread starter cleeshoy
- Start date
cleeshoy
Eats Squid
Not sure Gravity Enduro is the reason the number of XC and DH participants has decreased. If so, there would be a few hundred people turning up to every Gravity Enduro race. Whilst popular I don't think it is the sole reason.
I know from my perspective, I have hardly raced in the past 18 months. This is due to many reasons:
* Life in general getting in the way
* The urge to travel several hours each way to race most weekends gets tiring
* I am happy to "sacrifice" some of my own races to attend/support my wife's races. I get plenty of enjoyment seeing her race and do well.
* A 6 hour race does not have the appeal as it used to - For me, riding any longer then 3-4 hours starts to lose the enjoyment
* CX - its a shorter day, means i get home earlier or i start later.
* I actually want to spend some time at my house.
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Art Vanderlay
Hourly daily
Ok, I have dedicated myself to completing all the 6 hour VES events this year. It has been difficult but have managed to get to all of them so far. With lots of luck (for me) the dates have fallen all at the right times. However, to do this series year after year would just be to difficult, 3 kids + work and the rest of it.
On top of this there are local club races (cheaper and more convenient), marathons and 24 hour racing. Just so many races on the calender now
To do so many events in one year is quite costly. Entry fee, travel, accommodation, bike maintenance. Then on top of that there is time away from family (3 kids under 7) however my wife is very understanding or just doesn't want to spend time with me. Probably more of the latter...
I know in a couple of years time my kids will be older playing football, netball, soccer and whatever else kids do on weekends. Priorities change and will probably only do a couple of races a year....
On top of this there are local club races (cheaper and more convenient), marathons and 24 hour racing. Just so many races on the calender now
To do so many events in one year is quite costly. Entry fee, travel, accommodation, bike maintenance. Then on top of that there is time away from family (3 kids under 7) however my wife is very understanding or just doesn't want to spend time with me. Probably more of the latter...
I know in a couple of years time my kids will be older playing football, netball, soccer and whatever else kids do on weekends. Priorities change and will probably only do a couple of races a year....
akashra
Eats Squid
I'd put it down to the sheer number of events on the calendar. Same reason we are seeing a trend towards late entries. Why enter four weeks out when you can wait until the forecast is known and not destroy a drivetrain by just doing the next event a week later? There's no impetus on "must do this event because there's nothing for another six weeks" - the market has saturated itself, and while doing so also killed itself. Everyone wants to run their own club, so instead of large, strong clubs, we have groups of 30-40 spattered throughout the country, and they all want to run their own events rather than teaming up with others to run one bigger, better event.
I've also noticed a significant reduction in quality of events I've attended in the past 24 months compared to four to five years ago. Event promoters just aren't doing anything that's incentive enough to come - our event at Redesdale was no different really - with an inability to get people (volunteers/staff), we just kept it as bare minimum, no bells and whistles.
Finally, there's advertising. Half the events on in the state these days you wouldn't even know were on compared to four or five years ago when you knew well in advance what was on, all the participant clubs of series helped promote events, and they were well-broadcast. We've had a number of previously 'big' events this year that many I've spoken to, and even myself, didn't even know or remember were on until a few days before.
I've also noticed a significant reduction in quality of events I've attended in the past 24 months compared to four to five years ago. Event promoters just aren't doing anything that's incentive enough to come - our event at Redesdale was no different really - with an inability to get people (volunteers/staff), we just kept it as bare minimum, no bells and whistles.
Finally, there's advertising. Half the events on in the state these days you wouldn't even know were on compared to four or five years ago when you knew well in advance what was on, all the participant clubs of series helped promote events, and they were well-broadcast. We've had a number of previously 'big' events this year that many I've spoken to, and even myself, didn't even know or remember were on until a few days before.
Pastavore
Eats Squid
I agree with pretty much everything Tim said. Too many events, poor value propositions (except interwinter). And yes, there are a truly astonishing number of small clubs, some must have minimal membership. Amalgamation would benefit everyone in the long run.
It would be great to see a coordinated calendar of events, better marketing. And better value too, which can come with greater rider numbers.
On the other hand, cyclocross seems to be booming, maybe we are all just really fickle?
It would be great to see a coordinated calendar of events, better marketing. And better value too, which can come with greater rider numbers.
On the other hand, cyclocross seems to be booming, maybe we are all just really fickle?
akashra
Eats Squid
Tried that, you always get a couple of dissenters who think that just because they don't agree with every single idea you need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You come up with a calendar that you think will work, gives some gaps etc, and all of a sudden there's either another dozen events filling the gaps, of clashes over top.
IMO the way to go for club events in the future is inter-club series, certainly in Victoria anyway - InterWinter, RAMBO etc. regional Inter-club series rather than single-club series. The you get this whole problem with this idea that the 'state' series should just be four to seven club events slapped in to a series rather than all the contruting clubs running all four to seven events jointly, rather than club A runs round 1 and takes all the revenue minus a series pool, club B runs round 2 and same again... that's not a state series, that's an inter-club series.
I've tried to give assistance as best I can to Shane Coppin (the new MTBA EO) to make the new Marathon series as best we can - to not revisit, and in fact to correct as many of the mistakes as we possibly can that CA introduced in to their XCM series. Things like not running five rounds in the space of eight weeks or whatever stupid period it was, not using all completely new events at untested venues, not overlapping them with other existing, popular events - and most importantly the fact that noone even knew most of them were on until a few weeks befor. For a true National series it's looking good - now MTBA just have to advertise it right, and hope we can convince people the travel is worth it. As you already know, you have the opening round at Alice Springs over Easter, and the Marathon Championships at Derby just out of Launceston, Tas.
I hope people will make the decision to put these and the remaining events on their to-do list for 2015 - and if people want to give feedback on what would make people travel to this kind of event, this is the ideal thread to make that feedback known, not just for us, but relating to events in general.
I dunno, Cyclocross isn't doing as great as at times it appears. Numbers in it are dwindling too after people get over the initial "holy crap it's new!" interest. We've seen it in every series that's come along over the years - Specialized CrossMelburn, Dirty Deeds, SycaCross and FOJCX have all had big numbers to start out and none are anywhere near as big as they once were (or have shrunk to a point they've died off).
pistonbroke
Eats Squid
Cost.
I would need to feel an event offers something very special or unique to pay more than $100 for a 1 day event.
I'd pay a bit more for a 24 but not a marathon race.
Don't charge $130 for a 1 day event and only provide water.
I would need to feel an event offers something very special or unique to pay more than $100 for a 1 day event.
I'd pay a bit more for a 24 but not a marathon race.
Don't charge $130 for a 1 day event and only provide water.
Pastavore
Eats Squid
If I was planning on doing an interstate event, it would either have to be a quick solo hit and run, in which case convenience, logistics and cost are important OR drag the family along, in which case facilities and stuff to keep them happy is important. Not really helpful, I know.
I really enjoy a bit of a festival atmosphere at race HQ. Music, food, coffee, beer, products. A good microphone man.
MarioM
Likes Dirt
I`m happy with well run club events . Low cost , great tracks and different event formats . I do like to do Rocky Trail and Choc Foot events and do save the jet black 12 and 24 as my 2 big events . Others have said it - life , family , work , injuries all do get in the way but these things are important . Maybe what happened to the mont has a lot of people once bitten twice shy . A guy i know just did the scott 24 and mentioned there were around 400 riders , which is odd as this one seems to number quite high usually , but the mont is almost here which is obviously a factor . Had the mont not been postponed would the scott have been busier ?
no frills.
our Gmbc events have been increasing slightly except for the inter winter round we had.
the first race of No frills last year had 100 riders on a friday night, not sure we can beat that, but 100 riders for a hit out around the youies was a surprise and with those numbers. it ceases to be no frills, they start to take a bit of organising .
the national XC round was bigger than ever this year.
but due to injury work travel , weekend work i haven't been able to get to as many races this year, Also i think the VES teams events have been a bit stuffed up, it's become an individual series. In the past i have raced in a team and our team has done every race. Now that i do it as an individual, it's easy to miss events because I'm not letting down team mates.
our Gmbc events have been increasing slightly except for the inter winter round we had.
the first race of No frills last year had 100 riders on a friday night, not sure we can beat that, but 100 riders for a hit out around the youies was a surprise and with those numbers. it ceases to be no frills, they start to take a bit of organising .
the national XC round was bigger than ever this year.
but due to injury work travel , weekend work i haven't been able to get to as many races this year, Also i think the VES teams events have been a bit stuffed up, it's become an individual series. In the past i have raced in a team and our team has done every race. Now that i do it as an individual, it's easy to miss events because I'm not letting down team mates.
pistonbroke
Eats Squid
Look at 24th-26th October just in Victoria.
Lysty race Friday
Gravity Enduro
Bright 24
Surf Coast 6 hour.
Is the market really that big?
Lysty race Friday
Gravity Enduro
Bright 24
Surf Coast 6 hour.
Is the market really that big?
Pastavore
Eats Squid
And the YTCSGESF (Yarra Trails Crew Smith's Gully Epic Smash Fest)
For me it is the number of events. When I started racing the only endurance events on the calendar were pretty much the Mont 24 in Canberra and the 12 hour out at Yellomundi. These were "must do" events with the guys in my club, we would make a huge weekend out of them and have a campsite with maybe 30 or 40 riders.
Now there are so many events on the calendar it has diluted the "must do" factor... if you miss one race, well its all good, do a different one next week, if you are not where you want to be in terms of fitness, skip this one and do the next after you have done some training... then you lose the big group of socialising because everyone is off doing their own races rather than hanging out for those milestone events, and racing seems like more work!
my 2c
Now there are so many events on the calendar it has diluted the "must do" factor... if you miss one race, well its all good, do a different one next week, if you are not where you want to be in terms of fitness, skip this one and do the next after you have done some training... then you lose the big group of socialising because everyone is off doing their own races rather than hanging out for those milestone events, and racing seems like more work!
my 2c
Mountainbiking is going down a similar path to music festivals the way I see it. I used to be involved in music festival organisation over 10 years ago when they turned a profit( quite good ones). Over-saturation of the market and people in it for a quick buck have seen many of them fold.
Hopefully MTB can keep those events that are good going as there a a lot of 'ordinary' events that keep popping up. Look at the Scott small field due to the re-timing of the Mont,(maybe) combined with Stromlo not being the most fun place to ride and in that I mean climbing the hill each lap compared to railing the forests of Kowen/Sparrow. (beer garden yes please :0))
Hopefully MTB can keep those events that are good going as there a a lot of 'ordinary' events that keep popping up. Look at the Scott small field due to the re-timing of the Mont,(maybe) combined with Stromlo not being the most fun place to ride and in that I mean climbing the hill each lap compared to railing the forests of Kowen/Sparrow. (beer garden yes please :0))
Another example 6th December:
Gazebo 3hr @ You Yangs
Wombat 24hr @ Woodend (<1hr up the road)
Ok it's a slightly different market, but the W24Hr's date has been set since April and Gazebo's date has been the same for as long as I can remember.
I agree with Tim, and others the market has saturated its self, there are a lot of event’s on and the unfortunately reality is some of them just don’t present good value any more. For $130 you get an entry, a race number and that’s about it gone are the days where you would get a “showbag” of goodies, with stickers, gels, t-shirts, socks etc… Gone are the days where there are stocked feed zones, etc... $130 to ride trails that you can usually ride any day of the week isn’t good value.
I almost think we need this glut to cull out the less than impressive events, it’s just unfortunate that it might take some of the good ones with it.
Are there other factors at play, who knows? – I know our road club and surrounding clubs have been struggling with numbers all season, despite trying new race formats, new race venues, etc…
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quiggs
Likes Dirt
I think there lies a perfect example for the reason why numbers are down. I don't think cost really comes into it, overall mtb races are relatively cheap when compared to other sports like running and triathlons.
I think it all lies with too many clubs/private promoters all trying to run their own calendars, who all have good intentions to not clash with other races, but inevitably creates a calendar that is loaded from one weekend to another. Throw in to the equation the age of riders seems to be ever increasing, meaning family/life balance comes in to the equation Looking at the age of riders in the Yowie on the weekend many are well into the 30s or above. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of guys in the mid 20s joining in our great past time.
It would be interesting to see how many clubs, promoters etc. there are around Victoria now compared to 5-6 years ago?
Ackland
chats d'élevage
The dwindling "wow factor" at events (goodies bags, factory displays at the village etc etc) would also be due to the huge number of events.
Companies are probably tightening their belts on promo budgets at the moment and are stuck having to dilute their dollars across a number of events in the hope of getting some pay off for the exposure.
For me, its also knowing that there will be a quality field to race against when I pony up for an expensive interstate race.
The entry fee is small change compared to the effort of traveling from Adelaide.
Companies are probably tightening their belts on promo budgets at the moment and are stuck having to dilute their dollars across a number of events in the hope of getting some pay off for the exposure.
For me, its also knowing that there will be a quality field to race against when I pony up for an expensive interstate race.
The entry fee is small change compared to the effort of traveling from Adelaide.
caad9
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Age of reason
I think Quiggs is onto something with the age of participants.
A lot of guys I used to see at races have dropped off for whatever reason, mostly growing family commitments I'd say.
The MTB demographic is a lot older than any sport I've ever seen.
I'm purely talking from a Victorian standpoint, but I think it's simply peoples priorities are changing with that core group of riders being between late twenties and late 30's
Aside from the young JDT guys, and one or 2 others, how many young people do you see at any given event?
Also, there is only so many times you can race the same tracks and still get enjoyment IMO.
This is not any organisers fault, more a problem with land usage throughout Vic.
I've got more than a few examples of races I've done for years on end that have just become stale.
I think Quiggs is onto something with the age of participants.
A lot of guys I used to see at races have dropped off for whatever reason, mostly growing family commitments I'd say.
The MTB demographic is a lot older than any sport I've ever seen.
I'm purely talking from a Victorian standpoint, but I think it's simply peoples priorities are changing with that core group of riders being between late twenties and late 30's
Aside from the young JDT guys, and one or 2 others, how many young people do you see at any given event?
Also, there is only so many times you can race the same tracks and still get enjoyment IMO.
This is not any organisers fault, more a problem with land usage throughout Vic.
I've got more than a few examples of races I've done for years on end that have just become stale.
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silentbutdeadly
has some good things to say
For us it comes down to location...we offer some of the best/most different XC riding anywhere in Victoria on our track network but we are too far from anyone to get hoards of people at most of our events (despite the cheap event fee and the epic Enduro prize money). And we are too far from anywhere to go to others events.
When we do play away then we usually go as a club group (so we had three or four teams at the Dirty Weekend plus a couple at Melrose) with a smattering of other events such as this weekend's Poker Race in Broken Hill. And we time our club calender around these specific events every year.
For us...most of these big ticket events are one time bucket list jobs and unless you get a compelling argument/response from the organisers then we probably won't be back. The Dirty Weekend gets us back by offering a door prize of two race entries at our Enduro every year...
When we do play away then we usually go as a club group (so we had three or four teams at the Dirty Weekend plus a couple at Melrose) with a smattering of other events such as this weekend's Poker Race in Broken Hill. And we time our club calender around these specific events every year.
For us...most of these big ticket events are one time bucket list jobs and unless you get a compelling argument/response from the organisers then we probably won't be back. The Dirty Weekend gets us back by offering a door prize of two race entries at our Enduro every year...
Calvin27
Eats Squid
I am mostly recreational and would probably do 2 events (not races haha) a year. The problem from the enthusiast perspective is too many races and not enough value. Too many races means that it's actually harder to get my mates together for a blast. The races themselves are also quite expensive. I mean if you had 4 main events a year you could charge more and get more sponsors, more freebies and get more simply because there were more people to offset the initial outlay. Nowadays for $100+ I get to ride a course on some random day (weather) and not actually get a heap of a lot out of it. Enter 2 races and I've got myself some nice new parts. The freebies are also a nice part of a race entry.
Compare the rainbow of XC events with something like around the bay. It has all the makings of a successful format. Massive participation, and good support. You also get a pack with jersey - which is why I think people do it year on year.
As a non-racer my perspective is different to a regular. I'm more in it to see awesome dudes on bikes, check out the latest kit, hang with mates and grab some freebies (can we get socks at least?). Racing and the timed side of it is secondary.
Compare the rainbow of XC events with something like around the bay. It has all the makings of a successful format. Massive participation, and good support. You also get a pack with jersey - which is why I think people do it year on year.
As a non-racer my perspective is different to a regular. I'm more in it to see awesome dudes on bikes, check out the latest kit, hang with mates and grab some freebies (can we get socks at least?). Racing and the timed side of it is secondary.