Structure Cycleworks

[Structure-Ryan]

So its basically a rear linkage swing arm - with a headset at the end, with an added linkage for steering.

Its got to be adding a LOT of weight over a normal fork setup. Fork is still there, it just lacks a single steerer - but there is a short one in that headtube AND in the swingarm. That means two headsets. The linkage and shock are adding extra weight. The steering linkage adds weight (and is begging to be snapped). And you need extra engineering for the front linkage pivot points, on top of head tube strength.

Its interesting, but is answering a question that's not being asked.

It will be exciting for those attracted to the weird and ultra early adopters - you know like people who buy Alfa's after their last one had to be completely rebuilt, or the kind who expect a mechanic to sign off on work they didn't do. You know the kind of person.

It's a four-bar linkage, just like almost all multi-link rear suspension designs. dw, Maestro, Horst, VPP, KS link ... all four-bars.

The final weight won't be precisely known until they pop out of the molds and pass all lab tests, but the approximate weight is the same as any other carbon enduro bike. We know perfectly well it won't sell if it's significantly heavier.

 

[Structure-Ryan]

Nah, not much to go wrong......such as:

• TWO swingarms
• FOUR swingarm pivots (and eight bearings as it has a bearing each side I assume)
• TWO headsets
• TWO steerers
• ONE rear shock
• TWO shock pivot points
• THREE pivots on the Steering linkage thing - plus ONE steerer clamp
• TWO headtubes

I'm a bean-counter, not an engineer, but by my counting that really is a lot to go wrong there...

You're right, there's a lot to go wrong. But if cars can exist, I'm sure it's not insurmountable to put a few extra pivots on a bike.

Collet axles at every major pivot, rather large Enduro MAX bearings, sealed end caps ... and a lifetime warranty on the frame and pivots. We don't want a sloppy or creaky bike, either.

 

[Structure-Ryan]

Rear just looks like old Marin to me.

It's a Horst link, just like Transition, Specialized, Canyon, YT, Norco, Scott, Nicolai, Bird, Guerrilla Gravity, Raaw, Rocky Mountain ... and about a hundred others. The kinematics are our own, though, and I've even tweaked them for each chassis size to ensure they all ride the same (we're the only ones who reposition each pivot for each size).

The production version will have a conventional chainstay design.

 

[Structure-Ryan]

Damping wise it cant possibly be an improvement. A rear shock has less oil and air volume than a fork, metric shocks became a thing to chase extra millimetres for the exact reason that more volume in both of those things will increase performance, and these guys want to throw all of that away for linkage driven reasons that are hazy at best.

"Rear" (or front, as the case may be) shocks are darned good dampers. High air volume isn't inherently better; it's all about the compression ratio - which we can augment with the motion ratio of our linkage. Similarly, our front and rear leverage ratios are extremely low, at approximately 2.35:1. Anything less than an average ratio of about 3:1 is within the optimum operating range of a bike shock and works very well.

Eliminating the friction of fork bushings that are trying to slide while subjected to up to a kN·m of torque is far more valuable to suspension quality than a couple ccs of oil volume.

 

[scblack]

Thanks for the replies Structure-Ryan, an interesting design. Good luck with it.

 

[Structure-Ryan]

Thanks for the replies Structure-Ryan, an interesting design. Good luck with it.

Thanks, scblack! Building a company is even more difficult than building a bike, but we're giving it our best shot!

 

[moorey]

It's a Horst link, just like Transition, Specialized, Canyon, YT, Norco, Scott, Nicolai, Bird, Guerrilla Gravity, Raaw, Rocky Mountain ... and about a hundred others. The kinematics are our own, though, and I've even tweaked them for each chassis size to ensure they all ride the same (we're the only ones who reposition each pivot for each size).

The production version will have a conventional chainstay design.

Make it more ‘Orange’ and we’re getting somewhere. I appreciate all your replies, and applaud you for having a crack. Some will love it, reviews may rave about it, but I say the average punter will never consider it, and move away from the simplicity of a telescopic fork.

 

[Structure-Ryan]

Make it more ‘Orange’ and we’re getting somewhere. I appreciate all your replies, and applaud you for having a crack. Some will love it, reviews may rave about it, but I say the average punter will never consider it, and move away from the simplicity of a telescopic fork.

We know it's not for everyone and that's fine. If front linkages catch on, we envision telescoping forks remaining in the market as a less expensive alternative, similar to how single-pivot designs dominate the entry-level rear suspension market. Or maybe front linkages will always remain at the high-end fringe of bike options. There's room in the market for everyone!

Even the most conservative modern bikes would have looked outlandish a couple decades ago. And if the performance is as good as we claim it is, that ought to help people get over their fashion sensibilities

 

[moorey]

Single pivot certainly not solely the domain of entry level...but I think you already know that

My example or orange, worked superbly for their time 20 years ago, and with refining over the years and improved shock technology, those of us smart enough to still ride them, aren’t missing out on anything.

 

[Structure-Ryan]

Single pivot certainly not solely the domain of entry level...but I think you already know that

My example or orange, worked superbly for their time 20 years ago, and with refining over the years and improved shock technology, those of us smart enough to still ride them, aren’t missing out on anything.

I do know that and there's no accounting for some people's tastes - and that's coming from a guy who designs front linkages!

 

[moorey]

I do know that and there's no accounting for some people's tastes - and that's coming from a guy who designs front linkages!

Touché. You monster!

 

[safreek]

Thanks, scblack! Building a company is even more difficult than building a bike, but we're giving it our best shot!

"Rear" (or front, as the case may be) shocks are darned good dampers. High air volume isn't inherently better; it's all about the compression ratio - which we can augment with the motion ratio of our linkage. Similarly, our front and rear leverage ratios are extremely low, at approximately 2.35:1. Anything less than an average ratio of about 3:1 is within the optimum operating range of a bike shock and works very well.

Eliminating the friction of fork bushings that are trying to slide while subjected to up to a kN·m of torque is far more valuable to suspension quality than a couple ccs of oil volume.

Unfortunately Ryan, too many people like to brag about their new fox, marz or.legendary manitous, I think your main problems will be the lack of.bragging power. Some are so rapt to talk about their new fork that performance is a second thought.
If I was rich enough to try your bike I would give it a crack, but you would have to make it 26", not the other highly sus sizes.
Good luck in your venture, don't let the haters get you down

 

[moorey]

Unfortunately Ryan, too many people like to brag about their new fox, marz or.legendary manitous, I think your main problems will be the lack of.bragging power. Some are so rapt to talk about their new fork that performance is a second thought.
If I was rich enough to try your bike I would give it a crack, but you would have to make it 26", not the other highly sus sizes.
Good luck in your venture, don't let the haters get you down

Suck hole. He’s not giving you a bike....

 

[safreek]

Suck hole. He’s not giving you a bike....

He might, people tell me I suck.
I would be the perfect test pilot for something unusual. Also I haven't had a new bike in a decade or more so he might feel sorry for a broke ol geezer

 

[moorey]

Pfft. He’s more likely to give me one to test, being the old curmudgeon dead against his product, he would want to prove me wrong.
I’m one above you on the rung of 4587636 people who’s opinions are worthless.

 

[Boom King]

I’m one above you on the rung of 4587636 people who’s opinions are worthless.

Dozer is at the top of that list.

 

[Structure-Ryan]

These things cost us more to make than the prices at which some other companies sell their carbon frames, so I'm afraid I can't hand them out like candy. There are ways to test one without too much commitment, though:

1. Ask your favourite shop to contact us about acquiring a demo. Shops that have purchased one or more demo models and place orders on behalf of customers will receive a generous commission in proportion to their number of demo models. They can make decent money on Structures without having to stock any product (other than demo models, which generate a little revenue along the way and can be sold at year-end to recoup the initial purchase).
2. Check us out at a local demo event. If most of you are in the Australasia region, stick with option #1, for now.
3. Buy one. We have a money back guarantee: if it's not everything we say it is, just give it back. For the first fifty, the return period is four months from when you receive it; after fifty, it's still two months.

 

[moorey]

I'm afraid I can't hand them out like candy.

Lollies mate, LOLLIES!
Strut!You can’t expect to crack into the straya market without knowing the lingo.
Also, Firies, stubbies, tinnies, ambo, bottleo, compo, houso....none of us actually know what these mean. We just add ‘ies’ or ‘o’ to random words.

 

[PJO]

Lollies mate, LOLLIES!
Strut!You can’t expect to crack into the straya market without knowing the lingo.
Also, Firies, stubbies, tinnies, ambo, bottleo, compo, houso....none of us actually know what these mean. We just add ‘ies’ or ‘o’ to random words.

you missed drongo!

 

[nzhumpy]

Lollies mate, LOLLIES!
Strut!You can’t expect to crack into the straya market without knowing the lingo.
Also, Firies, stubbies, tinnies, ambo, bottleo, compo, houso....none of us actually know what these mean. We just add ‘ies’ or ‘o’ to random words.

Yeah/Nah