Terrorism: Paris, Syria, Turkey, Belgium, Florida......

Rob_74

Rob_74

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PINT of Stella said:
.... it also rams home the fact that we as a global culture really do not give a shit about dead brown people seeing as there were horrific terrorist attacks in Baghdad and Beirut in the previous days.

People keep saying ISIS recruit from the disenfranchised. I'd say that's pretty bloody disenfranchising.
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You too seem to have forgotten the 224 dead on the Russian airliner which ISIS claimed to have downed recently. I am guessing the majority werent brown. Just from a country with a fuck leader that isnt too popular with the westerner media and social networks ... similar to baghdad and beirut?

Edit: i should refresh before i post, seems like this already said by pharma.
 
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G

g-fish

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johnny said:
I think some of it comes down to desensitisation and compassion fatigue. Blasts in Iraq happen almost hourly, we've lived with that since 2003. Blasts in Lebanon are also relatively very common. Terror attacks in Egypt are also relatively quite common. Sure, aircraft coming down aren't but attacks on Sharm el Sheikh, attacks in Sinai, general unrest in Egypt has been a weekly occurrence for years.

Part of the reason is - along side who we identify with and as well probably with some an element of ignorance and racism - simple desensitisation. Another part is, very, very few of us would ever consider going to southern Lebanon, Sinai or Baghdad. Therefore it doesn't resonate with us because it has very little relation to us. Paris, on the other hand, many of us have been there, have friends and family there, want to go there. Lastly, Lebanon, Egypt and Iraq are very unlike where we live, we have trouble relating to those who live there and life in general there. PAris, on the other hand is very close to our own homes so we feel some empathy for the French and fear that it could have been us and one day might.
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This one has been really grinding me for the past couple of days. The majority of my friends are stereotypical uni student lefties who drone on inanely about feminism and similar issues on facebook. As soon as that New Matilda article came out, ALL of them got on the Lebanon bandwagon.. Some have posted profile pictures of the Lebanese flag embossed over their profile photos, etc. Now it's almost an obscene challenge of who can find the most obscure minority to appoint themselves the spokesman of (the best so far is a mass-murder in PNG recently).

The thing is, if any of these people actually watched/read the news they would have heard about the Lebanese bombing or Russian airliner, or any other tragedy. Instead their too busy being consumed by shit-house, click-baiting, churnillism blogs that have become the mainstream news source of young Australia (Buzzfeed, Junkee, Pedestrian.tv, etc.). "

Every time there is a major tragedy in the west this topic comes up (though definitely more so this time). But I've never seen any of these people posting/lobbying/volunteering to do anything about these tragedies when it's not cool to do so.

I think what you're saying about the impact that a bombing on Paris has is bang on Johnny. No one is saying that the lives of the Lebanese, or Russians, or Papuan's, or anyone is else are worth less. It's a tragedy that anyone is killed. But the whole idea of terrorism on the west is that it strikes terror among those that don't normally feel it. An attack on Paris is an exceptional circumstance, and has major consequences for the future geo-political landscape.

It's just hypocritical, self-righteous bullshit if you ask me.... I've been fuming this on facebook for days, but haven't said anything for fear of being beaten to death over a differing opinion. It's funny how people don't like having their political ideals questioned, even when they tout themselves as progressive? That's why I come and bug RB with poorly formed opinions. :)
 
Drizz

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g-fish said:
The thing is, if any of these people actually watched/read the news they would have heard about the Lebanese bombing or Russian airliner, or any other tragedy. Instead their too busy being consumed by shit-house, click-baiting, churnillism blogs that have become the mainstream news source of young Australia (Buzzfeed, Junkee, Pedestrian.tv, etc.). "
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Everyone lives in their own walled garden/echo chamber - it's makes life more cosy and easier in the age of mass connection and information.

I think what you're saying about the impact that a bombing on Paris has is bang on Johnny. No one is saying that the lives of the Lebanese, or Russians, or Papuan's, or anyone is else are worth less. It's a tragedy that anyone is killed. But the whole idea of terrorism on the west is that it strikes terror among those that don't normally feel it. An attack on Paris is an exceptional circumstance, and has major consequences for the future geo-political landscape.
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We might have to accept these events in the west as the new norm: this is a well organized attack but how are you meant to stop pissed off arseholes with guns and grenades?

As for geo-political landscape: I doubt much will change in Places like Syria like MH17 didn't change much in Ukraine, I still can't see France willing to put boots on the ground in numbers that matter. Schengen area will probably needed a rethink though.
 
pharmaboy

pharmaboy

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That's it johnny, couldn't agree more. The racist angle is just laziness , it's there, part it's part of the tapestry

And g fish, summed up my feeling ps on the matter - you don't really want to comment on a friends post as openly as you can here.

And talking of commenting - man, the moderation is good here - I made the mistake of going back to an old haunt, whirlpool. About 50% of posts were being cut, and would you believe one of the main reasons was because people were talking about Isis as the attackers even though it hadn't been "officially" confirmed. Just rediculous.
 
L

limeyfingers

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placebo said:
I cared enough to think of Russia's behaviour with MH-17 and LOL.
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How.about Iran air 655. 3 July 88, guess that served the civilians right as well, america has never held anyone responsible for that, the world has never held them responsible for that. Just saying that it was def America that shot 655 down but the Ukraine its possible the Russian, the freedom fighters or Ukraine government did it. Double standard or what. Pleasant that you think the Russian civilians deserved to die in a terrorist attack, pretty twisted morality
 
G

g-fish

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Drizz said:
As for geo-political landscape: I doubt much will change in Places like Syria like MH17 didn't change much in Ukraine, I still can't see France willing to put boots on the ground in numbers that matter. Schengen area will probably needed a rethink though.
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Ukraine was different though. No one really wanted to make Russia angry, and you could feasibly argue the point that Crimea was always actually Russian territory.. I think much of the international community was happy to let it slide so as not to wake the sleeping beast.

We'll see what France does.. Most leaders have gone for the easy political win and jumped straight to condemning ISIS, etc. The next step along that storyline is to at least start start bombing the crap out of "strongholds".

The past couple of years have really tested the EU. GFC/PIIGS crisis really hurt the area economically, and now there's this immigration/security crisis. It's only a matter of time until a right-leaning government takes the decision to step out of the EU I think.

There's that agreement on the cards at the moment to loosen visa/passport checks between Aus/NZ/Canada/UK... And other countries are looking to EU style models of economic cooperation. I think a lot of the world will be watching to see how the EU gets through this time.
 
johnny

johnny

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g-fish said:
Ukraine was different though. No one really wanted to make Russia angry, and you could feasibly argue the point that Crimea was always actually Russian territory.. I think much of the international community was happy to let it slide so as not to wake the sleeping beast.
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That's not really accurate. Russia has had some pretty severe sanctions placed on it for Crimea, Japan stopped cooperating with Russia on some pretty key points, etc. etc. There was a considerable measure of hard and soft power applied to Russia for their annexation of Crimea.
 
Calvin27

Calvin27

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Freediver said:
http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/the-projects-waleed-aly-praised-for-unity-message-in-the-wake-of-paris-attacks-20151116-gl0fz9.html

Waleed Aly gets it right one more time. Watch the video, if you have a short attention span don't worry it only goes for a bit over a minute.
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his argument is pretty good bar one fatal flaw is his assertion that these were not coordinated and that ISIS is a waning force that tries to take credit for everything. Sure, many terrorist attacks were lone wolfs and ISIS stuck their hand up for it, but this is a coordinated attack and that is the scary part. It's not nut jobs, but real coordinated efforts on home soil.
 
Freediver

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Calvin27 said:
his argument is pretty good bar one fatal flaw is his assertion that these were not coordinated and that ISIS is a waning force that tries to take credit for everything. Sure, many terrorist attacks were lone wolfs and ISIS stuck their hand up for it, but this is a coordinated attack and that is the scary part. It's not nut jobs, but real coordinated efforts on home soil.
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You must have watched a different video.
 
Big JD

Big JD

Wheel size expert
g-fish said:
We'll see what France does.. Most leaders have gone for the easy political win and jumped straight to condemning ISIS, etc. The next step along that storyline is to at least start start bombing the crap out of "strongholds".
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What do you mean that it aint ISIS- who the fuck is it then? Its got ISIS all over it. They have claimed it in numerous ways.
 
Drizz

Drizz

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Paris Under Attack...Terrorism

g-fish said:
We'll see what France does.. Most leaders have gone for the easy political win and jumped straight to condemning ISIS, etc. The next step along that storyline is to at least start start bombing the crap out of "strongholds".

The past couple of years have really tested the EU. GFC/PIIGS crisis really hurt the area economically, and now there's this immigration/security crisis. It's only a matter of time until a right-leaning government takes the decision to step out of the EU I think.

There's that agreement on the cards at the moment to loosen visa/passport checks between Aus/NZ/Canada/UK... And other countries are looking to EU style models of economic cooperation. I think a lot of the world will be watching to see how the EU gets through this time.
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EU is project built out of mutual self interest. All the countries are in it because they are part of something way bigger than they dreamt of that's why all the Eastern Euro Bloc countries all rushing to join. It does have its problems like the Euro is a half implemented idea with intention for a future political integration and Schengen was designed when all countries' populace have roughly same level of social and economic development.

Having said that you be pretty stupid to leave now (IMO): the Germans will do everything in its power to keep the show going and both America and China made clear to countries like UK not to leave, not to mentioned that a lot of migrant and security issues are solvable via a new treaty. I am willing to bet that EU will still be around even when both you and I have exit stage left.
 
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Calvin27

Calvin27

Eats Squid
Freediver said:
You must have watched a different video.
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Direct quote.

"What we don't know yet is if the attack was planned, ordered or funded by ISIL's leaders in Syria because the problem is, this is what ISIL do. They take credit for any act of terrorism on Western soil so they appear bigger and tougher than they actually are."

Like I said, the part about them taking credit for everything is very true, but eluding that ISIL might not have been responsible is optimistic. Even if not ISIL, possibly another branch or equivalent with the same ideaology. I have no idea about the size of ISIL or other terrorist organisations, but to pull this off, I'd say it is a mistake to underestimate them as Waleed did. This is a real threat and although it is essential in the fight against, unfortunately unity alone is not going to fix it. It's just scoring free public brownie points. No one has a real solution otherwise we wouldn't have this problem.
 
M

mason33

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Drizz said:
We might have to accept these events in the west as the new norm: this is a well organized attack but how are you meant to stop pissed off arseholes with guns and grenades?
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Agreed, if we are going to have a bleeding heart for these Muslim refugees we have to accept there will be wolves within the sheep and Islamic based terror attacks on western shores will only increase. There is a reason after all that the rich Muslim Arab countries won't accept their own. Maybe we just have to desensitise ourselves to these attacks on us like we have done with atrocities in third world countries.
 
pink poodle

pink poodle

aka stickchops
Calvin27 said:
his argument is pretty good bar one fatal flaw is his assertion that these were not coordinated and that ISIS is a waning force that tries to take credit for everything. Sure, many terrorist attacks were lone wolfs and ISIS stuck their hand up for it, but this is a coordinated attack and that is the scary part. It's not nut jobs, but real coordinated efforts on home soil.
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Wolves, not wolfs.
 
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