There can only be one

Ultra Lord

Hurts. Requires Money. And is nerdy.
That’s not as exxy as I thought at all!
Nice one.
Go a medium. Still longer reach to balance out the steeper seat tube, but not 60mm longer like the large.
Santa cruz frames run small.

More importantly, what colour?
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
More importantly, what colour?
I've been on the Isle of Skye as a child, cant remember much of it, really a couple of kid flashbacks and that's it.

I like the colour and name of Skye Blue, so thats the one... or two :p as it may be.

What about the effective top tube numbers ? The LARGE Deviate is only 3mm longer than my current SC, the MED is 30mm shorter.
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
Again, my Hightower is 18mm shorter than the specced bike, meaning the MED will be 48mm shorter on ETT and 11mm shorter in reach.g

The standard Large is 3mm longer ETT... but I dont know what specced stem is on the measurements.

The big difference is I shortened the OEM stem on my LARGE Hightower from 50mm to 33mm.



368833
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
How short of a stem can you run on the medium @ozzybmx? I wouldn't want to run a long stem on a frame this this.
No idea... I may have to send the lovely Julie another question.

I have no issues running a short stem but it has to be between the min 33mm and max 50mm... would hate to feel short on a MED frame at 50mm stem length.

Would rather have the Large and run min 33mm than the MED bigger than 50mm.
 

Ultra Lord

Hurts. Requires Money. And is nerdy.
Sounds like a large is in order then!
So standing will have more room, sitting down will have the bars closer on the two mediums? Short stems feel awesome. I don’t like the steering feel of 50mm stems, feels abit lazy. Size up to run a stumpy little nugget stem.

I’d be grabbing the blue too tbh. It hurts me to say that, black is the best colour........ normally. I’ve a pretty big soft spot for sky blue.
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
Sounds like a large is in order then!
Hurting my head... I don't mind a short stem but would hate a short frame and feel like I need a bigger stem.

The fact that the ETT of the LARGE is only 3mm longer than my LARGE SC with a 50mm stem, means that with ,my current 33mm stem on the SC, its 20mm longer IF its is sized with a 50mm... I have sent Deviate an email, will find out soon.
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Prepare for TL;DR!

Firstly -from what I can see in this screen-grab, it doesn't appear these comparison figures are based of accurate geo numbers. It's saying the reach would be +7mm on a medium Highlander, but the Deviate website says the reach on a medium is 444mm, or +1mm on the SC measurements listed here. Another discrepancy in the chart above lists the Deviate as 0.9 deg slacker HA, whereas Deviate list a 66deg HA (0.4deg slacker).

Just remember my SC has a stem at 33mm instead of the GG sized 50mm stem.
I'm not sure how geometry geeks do it, but normally the reach measurement of a frame doesn't include the stem length, so best to take that from your mind momentarily when considering the frame size. IMO pick the frame size you want based on your preferred descending/attack position (current positioning, or much more stretched out) and what response you want from the bike when fed an input from the bars (similar to your current setup, or more straight-line/high-speed stability - but less flickable/responsive to change of direction), and then use the stem length and seat position to tune steering response and seated fit. To make an assumption*, the ultra-short stem on your SC doesn't suggest you're needing/wanting more reach.

Assuming you selected a medium Highlander, but jumped to a 40mm stem on a medium, that means your ETT would only end up 23mm shorter than your current setup, some of which you'll be able to make back from sliding the seat back if you feel the need. With the Highlander having longer chainstays (not much on paper, but more at sag due to the suspension's rearward travel) a few mm change there won't destroy the climbing position of the bike IMO - and to be honest having the ETT setup a fraction shorter is rarely much of an issue on climbs and can actually be a really good thing on long chainstay bikes as you get to just sit up and motor along...

Going to a size large with the 37mm longer reach would seemingly demand that you'd have no option but to use the 32mm stem you currently run. Which such a dramatic increase in front-centre and with such a short stem, there may be times where it is difficult to get enough weight onto the front tyre to really get or keep it digging in, and overall may require you to ride in more of a aggressive attack/forward body position for more of the ride. Riding a long bike from a forward position can be great for when you really want to pin it through fast rough stuff as it gives a shitload of extra stability/safety margin, but it can also be a little tedious on mellower sections of trail, and it is worth considering what the majority of your riding really is (we all like to dream we're enduro racers 24/7, but some of us (ie: me) are just cruising blue-trails with mates most of the time!). I've sort of brushed on this already, but the wheelbase increase of a size large (plus the ~10mm additional wheelbase not shown from the rearward travel at sag) may make the bike noticeably feel long. Some people love that feeling, some people don't. While it's great for straight-line and high-speed stability through chunk or drops, it can make a bike feel a little slow/unresponsive in tight corners and low speed sections of trails. They're definitely not impassable because of the extra wheelbase, but that "quick flick of the bars, and you're through..." feeling tends to disappear (IMO).

*To declare my biases however, I'm not a fan of ultra-long modern geometry bikes or ultra-short stems. Both are great when the trails are fast and you have the strength to muscle the bike around and stay aggressive on the bike, but tend not to be so much fun when you just want to back off a bit and have fun on some flow trail (again IMO). Either option would will be perfectly rideable, but it depends what you want to focus your time and the bike on. If you want a similar feeling fit to what you have now, just with some rearward travel wizardry, the medium would do nicely. If you really want to get off the brakes more in the steep steeps and high speed section, and have the upper body strength to do it, a size large may be just the ticket. Just be aware that it's not all positives in the "next size up", and (psychologically) a bike that doesn't feel as lively due to sheer size can be a drainer on mellow trails at times. Some people don't seem to care at all and just motor along regardless, haha, so each to their own!
 

Cardy George

Piercing rural members since 1981
Prepare for TL;DR!


Firstly -from what I can see in this screen-grab, it doesn't appear these comparison figures are based of accurate geo numbers. It's saying the reach would be +7mm on a medium Highlander, but the Deviate website says the reach on a medium is 444mm, or +1mm on the SC measurements listed here. Another discrepancy in the chart above lists the Deviate as 0.9 deg slacker HA, whereas Deviate list a 66deg HA (0.4deg slacker).


I'm not sure how geometry geeks do it, but normally the reach measurement of a frame doesn't include the stem length, so best to take that from your mind momentarily when considering the frame size. IMO pick the frame size you want based on your preferred descending/attack position (current positioning, or much more stretched out) and what response you want from the bike when fed an input from the bars (similar to your current setup, or more straight-line/high-speed stability - but less flickable/responsive to change of direction), and then use the stem length and seat position to tune steering response and seated fit. To make an assumption*, the ultra-short stem on your SC doesn't suggest you're needing/wanting more reach.

Assuming you selected a medium Highlander, but jumped to a 40mm stem on a medium, that means your ETT would only end up 23mm shorter than your current setup, some of which you'll be able to make back from sliding the seat back if you feel the need. With the Highlander having longer chainstays (not much on paper, but more at sag due to the suspension's rearward travel) a few mm change there won't destroy the climbing position of the bike IMO - and to be honest having the ETT setup a fraction shorter is rarely much of an issue on climbs and can actually be a really good thing on long chainstay bikes as you get to just sit up and motor along...

Going to a size large with the 37mm longer reach would seemingly demand that you'd have no option but to use the 32mm stem you currently run. Which such a dramatic increase in front-centre and with such a short stem, there may be times where it is difficult to get enough weight onto the front tyre to really get or keep it digging in, and overall may require you to ride in more of a aggressive attack/forward body position for more of the ride. Riding a long bike from a forward position can be great for when you really want to pin it through fast rough stuff as it gives a shitload of extra stability/safety margin, but it can also be a little tedious on mellower sections of trail, and it is worth considering what the majority of your riding really is (we all like to dream we're enduro racers 24/7, but some of us (ie: me) are just cruising blue-trails with mates most of the time!). I've sort of brushed on this already, but the wheelbase increase of a size large (plus the ~10mm additional wheelbase not shown from the rearward travel at sag) may make the bike noticeably feel long. Some people love that feeling, some people don't. While it's great for straight-line and high-speed stability through chunk or drops, it can make a bike feel a little slow/unresponsive in tight corners and low speed sections of trails. They're definitely not impassable because of the extra wheelbase, but that "quick flick of the bars, and you're through..." feeling tends to disappear (IMO).

*To declare my biases however, I'm not a fan of ultra-long modern geometry bikes or ultra-short stems. Both are great when the trails are fast and you have the strength to muscle the bike around and stay aggressive on the bike, but tend not to be so much fun when you just want to back off a bit and have fun on some flow trail (again IMO). Either option would will be perfectly rideable, but it depends what you want to focus your time and the bike on. If you want a similar feeling fit to what you have now, just with some rearward travel wizardry, the medium would do nicely. If you really want to get off the brakes more in the steep steeps and high speed section, and have the upper body strength to do it, a size large may be just the ticket. Just be aware that it's not all positives in the "next size up", and (psychologically) a bike that doesn't feel as lively due to sheer size can be a drainer on mellow trails at times. Some people don't seem to care at all and just motor along regardless, haha, so each to their own!
I did read, and I thank you for it!
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
Thanks @beeb good stuff for thought right there. You have basically described how my SC currently feels.
Its light on front and requires a forward attack on flatter corners to keep the front from getting loose. Cheers...
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Cheers @beeb good stuff for thought right there. You have basically described how my SC currently feels.
Its light on front and requires a forward attack on flatter corners to keep the front from getting loose. Cheers...
You could (in the interim to NBD!) try a 40mm stem and shuffle the seat forward 7mm for an experiment. Should weight the front a little more and keep ETT fit the same, though it may "slow" the steering a bit.
 

Tubbsy

Packin' a small bird
Staff member
Prepare for TL;DR!


Firstly -from what I can see in this screen-grab, it doesn't appear these comparison figures are based of accurate geo numbers. It's saying the reach would be +7mm on a medium Highlander, but the Deviate website says the reach on a medium is 444mm, or +1mm on the SC measurements listed here. Another discrepancy in the chart above lists the Deviate as 0.9 deg slacker HA, whereas Deviate list a 66deg HA (0.4deg slacker).
Interestingly the geometry chart has changed in the last week or two. It seems to be referencing a 150mm linkage (I have a 140), but oddly they’ve steepened the head angle when on their socials they said the longer linkage would slacken it from 65.5 to 65.

The reach on my XL was quoted at 510, now says 499.

So they’ve also shortened the reach numbers, but those should have gone the other way?

Maybe a mistake in this chart or the previous? Or they’ve changed something about the next batch.

When I ordered the numbers looked quite different.
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Interestingly the geometry chart has changed in the last week or two. It seems to be referencing a 150mm linkage (I have a 140), but oddly they’ve steepened the head angle when on their socials they said the longer linkage would slacken it.

They’ve also shortened the reach numbers, but those should have gone the other way?

Maybe a mistake in this chart or the previous?

When I ordered the numbers looked quite different.
Not sure tbh, I didn't jot the numbers down anywhere, but seems there has been some minor alterations at some stage. (Some that don't make a lot of sense either - can't normally get a steeper HA and a shorter reach, but whatever...)

Luckily the differences are pretty minor, and won't really effect overall bike fit. Sag percentages, suspension travel length link selection, fork travel (and/or A2C difference between manufacturers) and rider weight positioning are all going to effect the dynamic geometry a heap more than those changes on the geo chart.
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
Been staring at this and the geo charts for the last 3 hours.

Got what @beeb said about the bigger front centre buzzing around in my head o_O

The ETT on the med is 8mm shorter than my Evil was.

My Evil stem was 50mm, that's why I went with a Large SC in the first place, knowing it would be approximately the same size with a 33mm.

The fork on my SC is 51mm offset, if I had 44mm offset it would give me more weight on the front.

A 50mm stem on the med Deviate will still be 12mm shorter than my current setup... which I don't think will be too bad.


368844
 

Tubbsy

Packin' a small bird
Staff member
I think it might be worth emailing Ben and checking what’s going on with that new geo chart - he told me the 140 link was better suited to air shocks and the 150 for coil.

As per @beeb the steeper head angle creating shorter reach makes no sense. And their socials say 65 for the 150 linkage. I can’t see them making new moulds for this batch.

Going to get the tape measure out on mine now!

This is only two or three weeks ago so not sure what the story is.
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
I think it might be worth emailing Ben and checking what’s going on with that new geo chart - he told me the 140 link was better suited to air shocks and the 150 for coil.

As per @beeb the steeper head angle creating shorter reach makes no sense. And their socials say 65 for the 150 linkage. I can’t see them making new moulds for this batch.

Going to get the tape measure out on mine now!

This is only two or three weeks ago so not sure what the story is.
Ben was the one who answered my last email yesterday about the recommended stem length and the offset. He said to go the Large and run a short stem with 42-44 offset forks.

Dammit... back to page 1 and read the thread again, this 140-150 link stuff needs another read.
 
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