Where to buy liquid ammonia in Sydney?

Techno Destructo

Techno Destructo

Riding In Peace
I've got an aluminum seatpost seized inside of a steel frame. Did everything I could, including doing the hacksaw bit, but the seatpost is too deep to cut all the way. Gotta do the ammonia trick.

Went to buy it from the hardware store and all I could find was a 2% version used for mopping floors or a 6g/litre spray (Silvo) for cleaning silver. I doubt these are what I need for the job.

Where can I buy the serious stuff in Sydney? Preferably near the Manly area? How pure can I get? Anybody got any experience with handling this stuff?
 
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3viltoast3r

3viltoast3r

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Care to iterate what the ammonium does?

Looked on Wiki, and it boiling point is -37, and it would be too hard to manufacture. Try an industrial chemical supplier perhaps?
 
Techno Destructo

Techno Destructo

Riding In Peace
Yeah, I should have researched ammonia before posting... dumb.

I should say I want liquid ammonia.

Basically it eats away at alkalai (did I spell that right?) metals and calcium... basically, the stuff that forms because of the chemical reaction between steel and aluminum, and causes the seatpost to seize... liquid ammonia has that stuff for lunch.

But searching on the web for sources of liquid ammonia in Sydney have come up nil. Maybe someone on Farkin knows more?
 
fezi

fezi

Likes Dirt
Ammonia is dangerous stuff. Read the MSDS on it before even thinking about using it. MSDS HERE

Whats the ammonia meant to do?

If it was stuck I'd be filling the seat tube with dry ice and waving a lpg torch gently over the outside. Should be enough to shrink the seat post/expand the seat tube.... Don't get the seat tube too hot though.
 
Techno Destructo

Techno Destructo

Riding In Peace
Google "stuck seatpost" and you'll find entry after entry of recommendations of using ammonia to break the bond between aluminum seatposts and steel frames.

A quote from Sheldon Brown's (RIP) site:
Aluminum seatposts frequently become stuck by corrosion also, and penetrating oil is almost useless against aluminum oxide. Fortunately, aluminum oxide can be dissolved like magic by using ammonia.
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alchemist

alchemist

Manly Warringah MTB Club
You may be better off looking/asking for "cloudy ammonia".

The 2% solution will probably work, but you should be able to find something a little stronger (upto around 25%)
 
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FoxRidersCo

FoxRidersCo

Sanity is not statistical
Cloudy ammonia should be available in common supermarkets like coles etc.. Used to clean ovens and stuff.

I doubt you will get your hands on Liquid Ammonia as there are only a couple of companies in Aus with a license to produce the suff as it is mainly used in fertelisers and is also used in Refrigeration. I don't think it is something that would be available to the public.
 
Ivan

Ivan

Eats Squid
Usually in laboratories I see concentrated Ammonia solutions to be around 25-32%.

If you are able to get your hands on something this strong, be careful. I wouldn't recommend using it at home without a fume cupboard, as the vapours are quite intense.spoken with experience:eek:
 
3viltoast3r

3viltoast3r

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Techno Destructo said:
Basically it eats away at alkalai (did I spell that right?) metals and calcium... basically, the stuff that forms because of the chemical reaction between steel and aluminum, and causes the seatpost to seize... liquid ammonia has that stuff for lunch.
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Im not sure what you mean, I think you may have the wrong term. Lookies

Did you try WD40 or similar? Perhaps it would be easier to get hold of some Weak acid? (Like 1-2M HCl) Know any bricky friends?

For dealing with nasty liquids, have plenty of Bicarb Soda around, It reacts with both acids and bases to form salty water and gas(hydrogen I think).....Basically it will neutralise it for you.
 
Techno Destructo

Techno Destructo

Riding In Peace
3viltoast3r said:
Did you try WD40 or similar? Perhaps it would be easier to get hold of some Weak acid? (Like 1-2M HCl) Know any bricky friends?
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WD40 is all but useless in this application, apparently. Only ammonia will do the trick. I did see cloudy ammonia, but will a concentration of only 2% really do the job?
 
alchemist

alchemist

Manly Warringah MTB Club
2% should work, but if you can find stronger stuff it will be quicker, and it's not a quick process as it is, you may need to apply a little at a time over several days.
 
toodles

toodles

Wheel size expert
Techno - I work with Ammonia - tons of the stuff. It's bloody toxic, corrosive and attacks your eyes and throat. Be very careful if you try to work with strong solutions of it.

I'd recommend either liquid nitrogen or a lot of heat first. If you're not worried about the paint, hit the area with an oxy and use a slide hammer to pull out the seatpost once it seperates.
 
Techno Destructo

Techno Destructo

Riding In Peace
toodles said:
Techno - I work with Ammonia - tons of the stuff. It's bloody toxic, corrosive and attacks your eyes and throat. Be very careful if you try to work with strong solutions of it.

I'd recommend either liquid nitrogen or a lot of heat first. If you're not worried about the paint, hit the area with an oxy and use a slide hammer to pull out the seatpost once it seperates.
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Oh fantastic! The man I need to speak to!

Is liquid nitrogen easier to get ahold of? I thought ammonia would have been easier.
I do know that using heat is not a great idea, since aluminum expands much easier than steel, possibly making a difficult problem become impossible.

I think ammonia is the way to go at this point. Is there easy to get mixtures that are stronger than cloudy ammonia at 2%? Is there any way to get the "good stuff"? I certainly wouldn't need much of it...
 
E

elliotdhmcgeary

Likes Bikes and Dirt
toodles said:
Techno - I work with Ammonia - tons of the stuff. It's bloody toxic, corrosive and attacks your eyes and throat. Be very careful if you try to work with strong solutions of it.

I'd recommend either liquid nitrogen or a lot of heat first. If you're not worried about the paint, hit the area with an oxy and use a slide hammer to pull out the seatpost once it seperates.
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Or do what i did on my old school roadie and take a blow torch to the thing! Though there is a pretty decent mark on the frame from it :p
 
fleshbone

fleshbone

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Um, i have no nothing to do with this ammonia stuff but could you try heating up the seat tube to expand the metal and potential loosen the area up? I do realise it may heat the seat post itself. Just an idea i had.
 
Ivan

Ivan

Eats Squid
Techno Destructo said:
I guess you didn't read my last post.
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If you have a CO2 extinguisher available to you you could try hitting it with that.

I have been looking up the chemistry for the Ammonium-Aluminium reaction and I haven't come across anything conclusive....:cool:

Edit: It may just be the Aluminium Oxide or Aluminium Hydroxide is soluble in Ammonia solutions.
 
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