XC Training

slider_phil

Likes Bikes and Dirt
In my experience, sweetspot is anything but sweet! Especially once the durations start to get longer

Here's an example of how long it takes me to raise my hr during a sweetspot interval



It could be that your heart rate threshold is slightly off, but the fact that the last interval really hurt says otherwise. Some people are also just predisposed to sweetspot/threshold work and others find v02 stuff easy, but threshold really hard. You'll start to figure your body out the more workouts you do

Here's a v02 max one from Tuesday to see the difference

 

MAXXTRED

Squid
Maybe a different race strategy might also be worth thinking about. Some people are just slower starters so might be worth letting the leaders get a very slight advantage in the first couple of laps then ratcheting up the pace a bit. This was always my style of racing when running (though I was firmly mid pack!).
That easier first lap might give you more towards the end.
Other thoughts - commuting is not really the best training, tends to be a lot of 'junk' miles. Road riding with a fast bunch would be better.
Otherwise intervals and Zwift!
Zwift.
Safe solid rides. No stops, no traffic lights. Kinda fun compared to old fashioned indoor trainers.

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MAXXTRED

Squid
Do you have a favourite 'race'?
No. The races I've done I just go hard from the get go and usually get dropped by the front group and solo to the finish... LOL sounds like your racing... LOL
Just do some of the pre built workouts in Erg mode.
There's a couple of Cape Alba Epic workouts which are challenging.

Just make sure you do a step test, also in the pre built workout section, to properly determine your FTP.

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nexusfish

Likes Dirt
Hi Slider Phil, in your sweetspot workout, what is your %HRMax during the interval? And during your vo2 max intervals, do you push as hard as you can and fade over the interval or try to maintain some high HR% and try to hold it level?
Ive been working on my sweetspot training which i base off my average Hr during a second lap in a xc race., which is around 86% for me. Ive not properly trained on a trainer before, but life is eating all my time to do road KMs so i need get a few sorted out.
 

Daniel Hale

Likes Bikes and Dirt
but life is eating all my time to do road KMs so i need get a few sorted out.
I've been helping a guy train for aus gran champs- Amy Gillett shut up & take my money ride, road km's are the worst.[I think its also hindering my sore back].finally back on the mtb last weekend -sat Gisborne for a bloke's 50yr bday ride on his $12K sporks stumpjumer, then sun at antimony mine trk -pyrite range...so sweet, PS wombat is still wet af.
 

slider_phil

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Hi Slider Phil, in your sweetspot workout, what is your %HRMax during the interval? And during your vo2 max intervals, do you push as hard as you can and fade over the interval or try to maintain some high HR% and try to hold it level?
Ive been working on my sweetspot training which i base off my average Hr during a second lap in a xc race., which is around 86% for me. Ive not properly trained on a trainer before, but life is eating all my time to do road KMs so i need get a few sorted out.
I usually try and ignore my HR and just and maintain the power target. But I've been listening to some stuff that suggests that lowering your power to maintain a certain HR is a good way to do it. I think 87% percent of max was talked about so I think you've got it nailed.

I've just had 2 weeks holidays so I've been off the bike and made it my off season. Both bikes and forum's lol. But back into it and just enough time to train up for Port to Port next April with the wife. Well, at least that's our current goal!
 

Cardy George

Is not in gaol
I usually try and ignore my HR and just and maintain the power target. But I've been listening to some stuff that suggests that lowering your power to maintain a certain HR is a good way to do it. I think 87% percent of max was talked about so I think you've got it nailed.

I've just had 2 weeks holidays so I've been off the bike and made it my off season. Both bikes and forum's lol. But back into it and just enough time to train up for Port to Port next April with the wife. Well, at least that's our current goal!
Train for April? Better pull my finger out!

Does it matter I haven't finished training for next weekend yet? :p
 

Cardy George

Is not in gaol
Hi Slider Phil, in your sweetspot workout, what is your %HRMax during the interval? And during your vo2 max intervals, do you push as hard as you can and fade over the interval or try to maintain some high HR% and try to hold it level?
Ive been working on my sweetspot training which i base off my average Hr during a second lap in a xc race., which is around 86% for me. Ive not properly trained on a trainer before, but life is eating all my time to do road KMs so i need get a few sorted out.
Still be a bit wary of heart rate though. My absolute max is somewhere around 190, and I've hit 185 a few times this season, but if I base my training on those figures I generally can't get my heart rate that high after a full day at work.
 

Cardy George

Is not in gaol
Didn't hit the right trails then.

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Probably not. Green Smoothie for a warm up, although at 7.30am it definitely wasn't warm, and then as much blue as I could. I'll leave black for when my brain says long travel is for wimps.
 

MAXXTRED

Squid
We should also avoid using HR as a goal in training and racing as it is a result of the work we have done as well as a heap of other variables ie Hydration, Fatigue, Heat etc.

Power and more so perceived effort should be used.

Watts don't lie and more importantly the sensations you feel at these efforts are vital. Then in the heat of battle you can do a quick self assessment and ask yourself how much more you can give.

My 2 cents

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slider_phil

Likes Bikes and Dirt
We should also avoid using HR as a goal in training and racing as it is a result of the work we have done as well as a heap of other variables ie Hydration, Fatigue, Heat etc.

Power and more so perceived effort should be used.

Watts don't lie and more importantly the sensations you feel at these efforts are vital. Then in the heat of battle you can do a quick self assessment and ask yourself how much more you can give.

My 2 cents

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Great advice.

Power for training but it should always be used to inform perceived exertion, along with HR.

The more metrics we can see the better we can figure out what our bodies are doing. This can be especially useful looking at our files after a race.

For example, if I'm riding at a threshold power figure but it feels more like V02 and my heartrate is lower than usual, then I know I need to back off and probably just spin the legs over as my body is needs to rest. But it can also be a great motivator when you have those days where the watts come easy and perceived effort is low.

The hard part about training is there is so many variables and everyone responds to different stimuli in different ways. Then you add in workplace and family stress, diet etc. It's a tough one and I'm no where near at a point were I've figured it out lol.

I've also only just penciled in 3 days of structured training a week for the next 6 months as I was having trouble finding time for 5 times a week. So I'm hoping I can be consistent with 3 and if I find myself with an afternoon to spare I can fit in something else to get a TSS bump.
 

MAXXTRED

Squid
Yeah
Fatigue is a whole lifestyle thing. Agreed.
Rather than trying to "bump" TSS, just do "as much as possible every day" and watch it creep up over time. You may not have you super fit for an event soon but it will help you avoid injury and exhaustion(making you useless around the house and office... Making life more stressful) and you can go into the event with a solid block of consistent training.

Consistency trumps Volume/Intensity.

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Cardy George

Is not in gaol
I was doing as much as possible everyday for a very long time, but I've developed more speed since I've started structured training. Horses for courses obviously. I also don't have a choice in being on my bike five days a week, I have to have 'recovery rides' or I won't make the whole week.

@slider_phil do you have a power meter on your MTB?
 

slider_phil

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I was doing as much as possible everyday for a very long time, but I've developed more speed since I've started structured training. Horses for courses obviously. I also don't have a choice in being on my bike five days a week, I have to have 'recovery rides' or I won't make the whole week.

@slider_phil do you have a power meter on your MTB?
Yep, just an old Stages crank arm.

I also use it to drive the trainer inside so I'm using the same powermeter indoors and outdoors since testing shows that a lot of smart trainers read a little high.

My wife is starting training again too with the intention to team up for the Port to Port. Hoping to get a little biking holiday away from the kids
 

MAXXTRED

Squid
I was doing as much as possible everyday for a very long time, but I've developed more speed since I've started structured training. Horses for courses obviously. I also don't have a choice in being on my bike five days a week, I have to have 'recovery rides' or I won't make the whole week.

@slider_phil do you have a power meter on your MTB?
Yeah cool.

Definitely different things work for different people. I know that I am a lower intensity/higher volume person(not that I do lots) because if I go too hard I get crook.

But one thing I have noticed about MTB since starting a couple of months ago is that it's fucking hard work.... LOL but so much fun.


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Cardy George

Is not in gaol
Anyone have a favourite plan for developing 2 minute power? I have the brute power to jump them off the line, and I can out ride them over 3 hours, it's just that little bit in the middle that's a bit deficient.
 
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