Bruce Ridge ACT

[johnny]

No one has to prove themselves. There are many lurkers following this thread that do not contribute for fear of being shotdown by such calls. Their potentially great input is lost. They also may have their own reasons for not being able to contribute with a shovel and that needs to be respected. So get over it. Everyone should be encouraged to contribute by whatever means practical to them.

I'm sorry but as far as I'm concerned that is just self-serving crap.

Sure, everyone has a right to put their bit forward and contribute to discussion. As has been very plainly put forward there are abundant facilities for these contributions to be made - if people have an opinion or suggestion and want to engage there is space for them to do so. If they are too timid to speak up and aren't willing to contribute physically then that is their problem. The way I see it is the people who don't contribute who should be respecting the wishes of those who do give up time, do have the drive to speak up and who do contribute effort and resources to keep facilities like these open.

It's not about proving oneself, it's about not sitting back and expecting to get what you want without pitching in.

 

[flagasinappropriate]

I'm sorry but as far as I'm concerned that is just self-serving crap.

Sure, everyone has a right to put their bit forward and contribute to discussion. As has been very plainly put forward there are abundant facilities for these contributions to be made - if people have an opinion or suggestion and want to engage there is space for them to do so. If they are too timid to speak up and aren't willing to contribute physically then that is their problem. The way I see it is the people who don't contribute who should be respecting the wishes of those who do give up time, do have the drive to speak up and who do contribute effort and resources to keep facilities like these open.

It's not about proving oneself, it's about not sitting back and expecting to get what you want without pitching in.

Thanks for your opinion and confirming one of my points.

 

[No Skid Marks]

I'm sorry but as far as I'm concerned that is just self-serving crap.

Sure, everyone has a right to put their bit forward and contribute to discussion. As has been very plainly put forward there are abundant facilities for these contributions to be made - if people have an opinion or suggestion and want to engage there is space for them to do so. If they are too timid to speak up and aren't willing to contribute physically then that is their problem. The way I see it is the people who don't contribute who should be respecting the wishes of those who do give up time, do have the drive to speak up and who do contribute effort and resources to keep facilities like these open.

It's not about proving oneself, it's about not sitting back and expecting to get what you want without pitching in.

This is all true. However, just because you gain rights to work on a location, I think respect of the places tracks character should be enforced and upheld to a certain extent.
DHers etc are mainly younger dudes, they're never going to have the time or foresight to jump through the hoops needed to get stuff done legitimately(gross generalization, but just an example), and it's safe to say those that have learnt lifes lessons may be more inclined to have less dangerous/exhilarating tracks. Again, just a generalization, I'm no spring chicken, LOL.

 

[No Skid Marks]

Everyone should be encouraged to contribute by whatever means practical to them.

Especially those behind the pens, going to meetings and using a shovel ;-) I know apart from the shovel bit, I'd rather be riding.

 

[flagasinappropriate]

However, just because you gain rights to work on a location, I think respect of the places tracks character should be enforced and upheld to a certain extent.

I hear what you are saying and I know a fair bit of that is commented about Bruce. I know many have similar expectations for Majura.

But that said, as Kramer has pointed out - works need a PCL signoff.

 

[Kramer]

Due to the high winds today we can not go ahead with the working bee, as the risk of falling trees is too high.

Next working bee is currently scheduled for 19 July.

 

[johnny]

Guess I should have checked this before I rode down here. Wind might pick up later but it's still right now.

 

[Kramer]

In the car park now. Going for coffee if you are keen.

 

[johnny]

Ha, I'm home already and just about to jump in the shower, I live very close to BR.

I also had my bike with me as it was, thanks anyway.

 

[No Skid Marks]

Damn. Well that sucks.

 

[Rookie]

1. Who the hell keeps putting crap (rocks/sticks/metal) right on the edge of the track? Is this a product of the current trail builders or some randoms fwits?

2. I see a few good descents are about to be closed. If you are going to close tracks, how about putting in some fun ones to replace them?

3. With the added dangers of track obstacles/booby traps out there now. You can't ride with out wondering what has changed around the next corner.

4. Majura needed a decent track rebuild. BUT, when it is rebuilt don't make it a track only for old ladies. Low speed basic tracks, fast flowy descents with some obstacles, techy descents, add to skills development for all.

5. May I also suggest it may be time to consider directional trails at Bruce if you are going to limit them number of trails as much as you are.

 

[johnny]

1. Who the hell keeps putting crap (rocks/sticks/metal) right on the edge of the track? Is this a product of the current trail builders or some randoms fwits?

I see heaps of sections of track where people are going off line to create wider areas or even B-lines for corners and so on. Basically it's people trying to create faster/easier lines than what is already there. That's probably a reason why there's stuff being put on the edge of trails, to keep people from adding on ad hoc.

I gotta say, I've never understood why people try and straighten corners and whatnot with B-lines. We ride trails because of the corners, climbs and obstacles. If people want straight and flat, they should go ride a fire trail.

 

[No Skid Marks]

I gotta say, I've never understood why people try and straighten corners and whatnot with B-lines. We ride trails because of the corners, climbs and obstacles. If people want straight and flat, they should go ride a fire trail.

Strava ego cheats.

 

[Rookie]

I see heaps of sections of track where people are going off line to create wider areas or even B-lines for corners and so on. Basically it's people trying to create faster/easier lines than what is already there. That's probably a reason why there's stuff being put on the edge of trails, to keep people from adding on ad hoc.

I gotta say, I've never understood why people try and straighten corners and whatnot with B-lines. We ride trails because of the corners, climbs and obstacles. If people want straight and flat, they should go ride a fire trail.

Problem is all that crap ends up on the track and people get injured. Half the crap is not even where people would create another line. It makes riding more dangerous because it doesn't allow for any error. Everyone makes mistakes and people putting things right on the edge or hanging over turns a small error into a major accident. Its intimidating for beginners and just plain dangerous generally.They don't need to do it at other tracks so why is Bruce Ridge so special?

Amateur track building at its worst.

 

[johnny]

They don't need to do it at other tracks so why is Bruce Ridge so special?

Amateur track building at its worst.

I'm not defending or attacking the practice (to be honest I really don't care) but you ask why Bruce is special and I could think of a number of possible reasons. First, as I've already stated there are heaps of spots where people are trying to create their own lines and widen sections of tracks. So regardless of what happens at other trails the point is that there is a need for some kind of response at BR. Secondly, not all other trails exist under the same arrangement as BR and there may be a need to have tighter control here than other places experience in order to retain MTB access on the Ridge.

I mean I don't know, I'm just guessing here. But I'd reckon your best way to find out and maybe address the issue is to attend one of the build days, July 19th being your next opportunity.

 

[flagasinappropriate]

Hey everyone,
I put together this draft rides code for comment. My aim has been to keep it as simple and as clear as possible so all users will understand it. The main focus is personal responsibility as people riding irresponsibly is our main problem.

Any constructive input is welcome. Please make others aware of this discussion.

Draft Bruce Ridge Riders Code
1. Ride responsibly. Out of control riders are a danger to themselves and other park users. You are responsible for your actions.

2. Respect the rights of others. Give way to riders, pedestrians, runners and other users. Make them aware of your presence as you approach and give them right of way.

3. Downhill riders give way to uphill riders.

4. Stay on the trail. No short-cuts and avoid skidding. Short-cuts and skidding cause erosion of the trail and surrounding soils.

5. Be aware of trail closures. Avoid riding in wet, muddy conditions. Respect the directions of the ACT Parks Conservation and Lands – use Google if unsure.

6. Leave animals, plants and rocks where you find them.

7. Take all your rubbish home.

8. Avoid riding in large groups. Small groups are more manageable.

9. If you meet other mountain bike riders who are not following this code politely explain to them that only by keeping to these guidelines can we ensure that mountain bike riding remains an accepted recreational pursuit in ACT Parks and Reserves.

 

[johnny]

Good work on getting this out.

First question would be on how you intend this on being disseminated - posted at each entrance of BR, websites that mention BR (ACT tourist and cycling sites for example), on FoBR and CORC websites, etc?

Few more questions and discussion points below to get the ball rolling.

Hey everyone,
I put together this draft rides code for comment. My aim has been to keep it as simple and as clear as possible so all users will understand it. The main focus is personal responsibility as people riding irresponsibly is our main problem.

Any constructive input is welcome. Please make others aware of this discussion.

Draft Bruce Ridge Riders Code
1. Ride responsibly. Out of control riders are a danger to themselves and other park users. You are responsible for your actions. How do you define "out of control"? I'm no lawyer but I'm not sure that simply saying "you are responsible for your actions" really means much in the end.

2. Respect the rights of others. Give way to riders, pedestrians, runners and other users. Make them aware of your presence as you approach and give them right of way. Not sure how this works as it seems to boil down to "everyone has to give way to everyone"

3. Downhill riders give way to uphill riders. Never been a huge fan of this one as the person going DH is moving faster and has less ability to slow and hange course than the uphill rider. I understand that it's harder to get going UH again more than when going DH but I'd suggest that ability to best execute a slowdown and direction change should be the criteria for determining obligations and safety here. Ken to hear other opinions.

4. Stay on the trail. No short-cuts and avoid skidding. Short-cuts and skidding cause erosion of the trail and surrounding soils.

5. Be aware of trail closures. Avoid riding in wet, muddy conditions. Respect the directions of the ACT Parks Conservation and Lands – use Google if unsure.

6. Leave animals, plants and rocks where you find them.

7. Take all your rubbish home.

8. Avoid riding in large groups. Small groups are more manageable. That's going to complicate things for a lot of riders up there. I see skill sessions, social rides, etc. up there pretty frequently. Are you sure you want to discourage what seems to be legitimate use like that?

9. If you meet other mountain bike riders who are not following this code politely explain to them that only by keeping to these guidelines can we ensure that mountain bike riding remains an accepted recreational pursuit in ACT Parks and Reserves.

 

[nak]

My 2c - I reckon this is a great idea, Etiquette and Maps (with a you are here arrow) at each entrance to the reserve would be a great iniative - Any sign could also have a quick blurb about the values of BR as a nature reserve and why the trail etiquette needs to be respected.

Draft Bruce Ridge Riders Code
1. Ride responsibly. Out of control riders are a danger to themselves and other park users. You are responsible for your actions. How do you define "out of control"? I'm no lawyer but I'm not sure that simply saying "you are responsible for your actions" really means much in the end.

I like this definition ' If you come to a blind corner, assume an elderly angry lawyer is coming up at you. Don't ride beyond your limits.'


2. Respect the rights of others. Give way to riders, pedestrians, runners and other users. Make them aware of your presence as you approach and give them right of way. Not sure how this works as it seems to boil down to "everyone has to give way to everyone"

Take out riders - give way to pedestrians, runners etc etc

3. Downhill riders give way to uphill riders. Never been a huge fan of this one as the person going DH is moving faster and has less ability to slow and hange course than the uphill rider. I understand that it's harder to get going UH again more than when going DH but I'd suggest that ability to best execute a slowdown and direction change should be the criteria for determining obligations and safety here. Ken to hear other opinions.

Agree. downhillers must give way to uphillers - if you're travelling too quick down hill to not be able to slow and move off the track, IMO you're not riding responsibly enough on shared trails

4. Stay on the trail. No short-cuts and avoid skidding. Short-cuts and skidding cause erosion of the trail and surrounding soils.

5. Be aware of trail closures. Avoid riding in wet, muddy conditions. Respect the directions of the ACT Parks Conservation and Lands – use Google if unsure.

6. Leave animals, plants and rocks where you find them.

7. Take all your rubbish home.

8. Avoid riding in large groups. Small groups are more manageable. That's going to complicate things for a lot of riders up there. I see skill sessions, social rides, etc. up there pretty frequently. Are you sure you want to discourage what seems to be legitimate use like that?

Yeah - I reckon large groups are fine

9. If you meet other mountain bike riders who are not following this code politely explain to them that only by keeping to these guidelines can we ensure that mountain bike riding remains an accepted recreational pursuit in ACT Parks and Reserves.

 

[flagasinappropriate]

Good work on getting this out.

First question would be on how you intend this on being disseminated - posted at each entrance of BR, websites that mention BR (ACT tourist and cycling sites for example), on FoBR and CORC websites, etc?

Few more questions and discussion points below to get the ball rolling.

Thanks johnny,

It would be good if this was disseminated around BR on the message boards and any brocher or website that talks about BR. The map of BR is a great idea too. We've all seen plenty of good signage elsewhere in other bike parks, I think this can be done here too with the support of the ACT Gov.

I'm no lawyer either but I've seen this kind of words used a fair bit in trail codes. I guess what I'm mindful of is that this is not a law or enforceable, it is merely a best practice guide for riders using BR. Most of this happens 95% of the time anyway including dh riders giving way to uh riders. Using words like "avoid" doesn't tell you not to, it asks you for example to think about the impact of your group size on other users.

With the dh riders giving way to uh riders suggestion, it is a staying control thing but also if an uh rider causes a dh rider to crash, the dh rider can't really go ape at the uh rider. It just creates a nicer situation. I'd hope though that the multiple give way thing would encourage everyone to look ahead and be aware of riders coming the other direction, including those going uh. Too many riders only look at their front wheel these days.

 

[danncam]

It's an old argument, who should give way, those riding up or down. For the fuck all that its worth; if you're having fun going down(hill) the sweating gasping uphiller needs to pull over, let you keep having fun, and then start riding uphill again slightly rested and with the comfort of knowing they didn't ruin the best bit of mountain biking, flowing, fanging, bombing, carving (however you describe see the joy of cornering and speed that heading downhill gives).

Other than that, reasonable rules to ride by there.