eBikes - what's the current perspective

[SamD]

Oh I made the same points earlier and didn't realise you wanted them repeated.

1)Because electric bikes are classed as bikes under all state laws and a 125cc motorbike comes in at about 8900 watts.

It's not a motoped nor a motorcycle. Just because you see a small electric power plant hanging off it doesn't matter. The law doesn't care for your opinions.

2). They don't do trail damage.

 

[SamD]

Lazbo someone once said that arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a muddy pig. After a few hours you start to realise the pig likes it.

 

[Lazmo]

Lazbo someone once said that arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a muddy pig. After a few hours you start to realise the pig likes it.

Sammy Davis... the muddy pig might like it, but it doesn't mean the pig is right.

I've been working with (and often managing) electronics / software engineers for over 40 years. Just because someone is a degree qualified engineer doesn't mean they know what they are talking about... most of them need to line their shoes up at night otherwise they feel a bit strange. A lot of them wear their pants too high and can't get a root.

Some of my work is as an ICT Sales Engineer... mainly because there is no way you'd put most of the engineers I know, in front of a customer... because their communication skills sucks. They are not listening, they are talking... they know the answer, they are an engineer, no need to listen... what would ordinary dumb people like customers know.

Mountain bike trails are for mountain bikes... pretty easy.

 

[Ivan]

They are not listening, they are talking... they know the answer, they are an engineer, no need to listen... what would ordinary dumb people know.

Lol. This is so true.

 

[link1896]

You're forgetting I ride DH with other riders and several high profile riders here are quietly ebikers. I've invested m time in building trails. Weekend after next I'm back at it. I may take my 2010 GT or I may take my ebike out after.
This fascination with ebikes damaging trails is mathematically baseless and you need to let it go. Until you do i have some rationale as to viewing people as not understanding the engineering at hand properly.

I should think getting along is something that Flowrider is taking the lead in. I'm antagonistic in response to red rag posts. And receptive and engaged by genuine ones like he posted.

Yeah I'm a degree qualified engineer and people starting using actual units of measure.
What the fucking issue with science finally arriving on the scene?

Putting this thru the bandsaw tomorrow and splicing in a Kevlar tank and small legal mid drive tomorrow. Guy wants to hit the runs on the way home from work and not get stinky on the way to work. Leave the car at home.
Nice daytime temp for epoxy work and a few beers by lunchtime.

Doubt it. This isn't a question of reaction time. You may be confusing neural speed with overall intelligence. And at risk of coming across trite to settle an old score because your ego is more important to you than evolving bikes.

Look at the question the OP posed. Can't do engineering? Haven't ridden an actual Ebike?
Off you go.

Band saw. With a D.
West Coast cooler a bit much fella.

Finished another Norco A line this week.

Up in six hours to hit the trails and a rebuild a few.

Nope, you're a chunt, arguing with an idiot is never easy, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Ebike mtb's are not an evolution, it's like marrying your cousin. For "transport" ebikes have a valid place in the market as a step thur, 700c hybrid style, etc.

For off road recreation in the form of a Mtb, nope not at all, not welcome, fuck off.


This thread reminded me to email Parks Vic and ask if Stealth and/or Gizmodo had a permit for professional filming in Lysterfield Park and an exemption for a motorbike.

 

[Dales Cannon]

Yeah I'm a degree qualified engineer and people starting using actual units of measure.
What the fucking issue with science finally arriving on the scene?

Funny thing is this forum has many many engineers on it. Some of us have more than one or two pieces of paper. Mine are rolled up on a cardboard tube and I would place a bet yours is framed on a wall somewhere? In any case you are the only one making the profession look as bad as the generalisations. Pull your head in and stop announcing to the world you are a tosser.

Nice signature by the way.

Regardless of how the law sees ebikes and the 'power' they have no place on Mtb bike trails. There be but one e in mountain bike. Sorry Mark...

 

[99_FGT]

Funny thing is this forum has many many engineers on it. Some of us have more than one or two pieces of paper. Mine are rolled up on a cardboard tube and I would place a bet yours is framed on a wall somewhere? In any case you are the only one making the profession look as bad as the generalisations. Pull your head in and stop announcing to the world you are a tosser.

Nice signature by the way.

Regardless of how the law sees ebikes and the 'power' they have no place on Mtb bike trails. There be but one e in mountain bike. Sorry Mark...

Was thinking the same.
SamD
You are a degree qualified engineer?
What discipline? Materials some you are remolding carbon frames?
Electrical since you are dealing with motors and drives?
Mechanical since you are modifying drive systems?

Are you in qld? (Dales knows where I'm going with this)

 

[pink poodle]

Band saw. With a D.
West Coast cooler a bit much fella.

Finished another Norco A line this week.

Up in six hours to hit the trails and a rebuild a few.

A good days fishing usually starts catching small fry. keeps you're eye in for the real fish...have a good day on the trail live bait.

On the A-line, solid frames. The old monocock frames would suit your endeavours nicely.

That explains the awesome communication skills...

Do you mean interpersonal skills?

While we are indulging in unkind wide sweeping generalisations, from my experience, 2 types of kids became engineers after school. First was the ones that copped heaps of bullying because of how nerdy they were. You know the sort...regularly stuffed in the bin/locker, pre-wedgied themselves save everyone the trouble and so on. The others were those football loving jocks that couldn't get laid without the use of excessive alcohol, and even then preferred to be laying in a pile of dudes playing some kind of wedgie delivering tackle game. I guess they felt they missed out on the wedgies the other kids were getting?

 

[SamD]

Awesome morning for it. Now home to get the Fury 2.0 for some gravity.

 

[MARKL]

Oh I made the same points earlier and didn't realise you wanted them repeated.

1)Because electric bikes are classed as bikes under all state laws and a 125cc motorbike comes in at about 8900 watts.

It's not a motoped nor a motorcycle. Just because you see a small electric power plant hanging off it doesn't matter. The law doesn't care for your opinions.

2). They don't do trail damage.

:hail: the great engineer...and not entirely true...sometimes it is a moped or motorcycle, sometimes it isn't...

I will use NSW legislation seeing that is the state that I live in, RMS publishes a handy little guide 'Vehicle Standards Information, mopeds and power assisted pedal cycles - 27' http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/standards/vsi-27-mopeds-power-assisted-pedal-cycles.pdf. Some ebikes are described as motorcycles/mopeds, some are loosely included within the definition of bicycle. It is also clear they see even the ones they include 'bicycles' as being something different, I have attached a hand little summary flow chart from the standard, they go on to describe the lowly powered ones as 'power-assisted pedal cycles'. Clearly it is an area where the law is playing catch up and to be fair things are moving all over the place so that is understandable.

The problem that I have with your argument is that you are using a bit of legislation that was drafted to describe how various 'vehicles' interact with the road network:

1) does the vehicle need to be registered, and
2) does the operator need a licence, and
3) what standards does the vehicle need to comply with.

You are using the justification that the RMS does not require your vehicle to be registered or the rider licenced to justify your participation in an activity which is outside of that legislation. We are talking about riding 'off-road' and your argument doesn't stack up that you should be granted unrestricted access to mountain bike trails. Knock yourself out on the road, speed past pedestrians on foot paths, blast past me on fire trails (well going up anyhow) but leave our trails alone.

Sorry Mark...

All sweet, I have dealt with enough engineers to be able to pick the good ones from the useless as tits on a bull.

 

[bikeyoulongtime]

OK, so this whole electric motorbike thing relies on one little legal catch - see circled bit below:


In my experience with pedal activated electric motorbikes (or pedelecs to assuage your conscience), zero, 0.0, the engineering quantity of not any- are designed to be solely propelled by human power or pedalling. Moving the pedals activates a motor.

?? The 'yes' link is dubious at best.

Made legal by determining what a lobby group can get away with...

 

[Lazmo]

That explains the awesome communication skills...

Do you mean interpersonal skills?

Pink, probably… but I’d bet Sammy sucks at both

Some of us have more than one or two pieces of paper. Mine are rolled up on a cardboard tube and I would place a bet yours is framed on a wall somewhere?

And I reckon you’d win.

BTW, I wasn't dissing all engineers, having worked in ICT all my life, some of my best friends are engineers…



And Sammy, this mornings bike... 250watts? No wheel spin? No trail damage?

 

[SamD]

Don't confuse 250w pedelecs with 200w throttle only bikes which can be solely pedalled. If it can move with pedals it was designed to make use of the pedals.

Not sure why putting it in a box there is so important to you if it neither harms trails nor people.

Had a lovely chat with some local bikers this morning. Big fella on a trek 29er confessed his knees were flogged out and was considering a small mid drive to get between runs. He was amazed at my buddy Adam's resting heart rate at 168.

People come around fast.

 

[franco cozzo]

Awesome morning for it. Now home to get the Fury 2.0 for some gravity.

LOL. clearly 'engineers' arent designers....that is one of the ugliest things ive seen on 2 wheels
if its got a motor its got no place on trails....theyre dangerous to other users (both walkers & riders) and they fuck the environment.

...or to put it another way:

bicycle = the motor is you

 

[Dales Cannon]

bicycle = the motor is you

Mine needs reconditioning...

Resting heart rate? 168? Why isn't he in hospital?

 

[pistonbroke]

Mods please put this thread out of my misery. It makes me sad inside.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Mine needs reconditioning...

Resting heart rate? 168? Why isn't he in hospital?

Tachycardia that high, he wouldn't need hospital due to his acute case of deads.

 

[johnny]

Mods please put this thread out of my misery. It makes me sad inside.

That would bring about complaints of censorship.

Whilst SamD is just 85% trollish, we live in hope that he can reduce the provocative aspect of his approach, that people like Langanderton, who bring maturity to the discussion and are able to bring people like Hyena in to the tent. Secondly, others are still able to carry on constructive discussion and that would be wasted if the thread was closed due to the bickering.

 

[hifiandmtb]

Awesome morning for it. Now home to get the Fury 2.0 for some gravity.

That is one of the ugliest contraptions I've seen of any type. How can you take a photo of it & post it?

 

[pink poodle]

others are still able to carry on constructive discussion

I appreciate the recognition Johnny, thank you.