Fire Warnings

frenchman

frenchman

Eats cheese. Sells crack.
hifiandmtb said:
I'm trying to find the article from peeps who know about bushfires in Straya & their recommendations for a new approach - far better fire monitoring than we have now and immediate response with aircraft & the like.

Can't find the damn article now.

[edit] Found it:

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...o-stop-megafires-forming-bushfire-experts-say



Which brings me back to my original point - invest in expensive, partially used aircraft. So fucking what if costs a bomb.
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No where in that article does it mention to avoid back burning , but 2 posts ago you were advocating against It.
Locals have been effectively back burning for 1000s of years.
 
Oddjob

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
hifiandmtb said:
I'm trying to find the article from peeps who know about bushfires in Straya & their recommendations for a new approach - far better fire monitoring than we have now and immediate response with aircraft & the like.

Can't find the damn article now.

[edit] Found it:

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...o-stop-megafires-forming-bushfire-experts-say



And this:



This is reinventing the wheel:



Which brings me back to my original point - invest in expensive, partially used aircraft. So fucking what if costs a bomb.
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I don't get the Finland reference.

Even if we get the planes and suppress the shit out of every fire, what happens to the unburnt fuel? What happens if one fire gets out of control after a decade of fire suppression?

It's not a binary choice. You need to everything including, reduce the amount of fuel and have better fire suppression resources.

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Freediver

Freediver

I can go full Karen
hifiandmtb said:
The only solution we have left for fires is no fires. The end.
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fantasy land, we are going to have more fires not less.
I don't want to sound like a wanker and start namedropping but I've been involved in this for near thirty years and have spent many hours both working and socially with the some of the countries leading forest and climate change experts. You need to stop being so blinkered.
 
Oddjob

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Freediver said:
fantasy land, we are going to have more fires not less.
I don't want to sound like a wanker and start namedropping but I've been involved in this for near thirty years and have spent many hours both working and socially with the some of the countries leading forest and climate change experts. You need to stop being so blinkered.
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No! You should be a unicorn too!

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hifiandmtb

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
frenchman said:
No where in that article does it mention to avoid back burning , but 2 posts ago you were advocating against It.
Locals have been effectively back burning for 1000s of years.
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Are you getting confuxored between back burning & hazard reduction?

My comment was to do with "let go into the forest and fell trees and...something something with the stuff we've felled hey lets burn it as it's energy like petrol". I wasn't talking about burning in place, I was responding to the idea that what's felled is burned for energy.



@Oddjob The Finland reference is this: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/19/make-america-rake-again-finland-trump-forest-fire Can't believe you didn't know about this?

Try wandering off into the Wollomi wilderness, thinning the forest & see how effective you are.

Fuck me!
 
Freediver

Freediver

I can go full Karen
hifiandmtb said:
Try wandering off into the Wollomi wilderness, thinning the forest & see how effective you are.

Fuck me!
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Stop being a blinkered dick, nobody other than loggers (and maybe Oddjob) talks about thinning undisturbed natural ecosystems.
I'm not sure if I haven't explained well or.....
 
hifiandmtb

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
I seem to be responding to quite a few different ideas here. I'm no expert, I'm out.

I do believe we need better air fire fighting resources. What happened here in Straya six months ago was a fucking catastrophe.
 
mark22

mark22

Likes Dirt
Tubbsy said:
I was talking to a guy at a BBQ last summer who is a helicopter engineer, so assume some bias here, but his argument was very much against the large planes.

He felt Australia needs a fleet of sky crane helicopters, because of the ability to deploy them from smaller airfields, easier to manoeuvre in difficult terrain and the fact that they can refill the tanks without landing from dams or even suburban swimming pools.

Agree wholeheartedly that those billions should be spent on an effective firefighting infrastructure rather than redundant military equipment.

View attachment 366377
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Very true, that Sikorsky can hover over a dam and push up 9500l in less than a minute. Great to watch geez it's big up close, they deploy quickly don't need a dirty great runway with infrastructure to operate and have a fast turnaround. Much more suitable for our environment.

It's bloody pointless comparing defence spending to firefighting you may as well compare it to MTB trail building funding. Which of the two do you think the overall population would put first?

Fires are a part of a fair whack of Southern Australia, and the urban sprawl continues it's outward movement more homes are impacted, every current fire or natural disaster is the worst "someone has ever seen" people have such short memories. The Kinglake and Marysville fires were way worse in terms of loss of life.

Best be prepared for it if you are at risk, or bug out real EARLY because it will happen again no matter how many recourses you have if the condition are extreme there ain't no stopping it.

Or alternatively have the notion it won't happen to me which is wildly popular.

Aircraft fighting fires don't generally fly at night in Au so they are infective during this period, dangerous as it is in daylight operating in smoke as we saw with the US C130 crashing this year with the loss of the crew.
 
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hifiandmtb

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
Loss of life should be less of an issue now because we've got much better at early warning.

And:

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1920/Quick_Guides/AustralianBushfires#:~:text=The 2019-20 bushfires in,the State's national park estate).

The Bureau of Meteorology noted in its Annual Climate Statement 2019, published on 9 January 2020, that, ‘The extensive and long-lived fires appear to be the largest in scale in the modern record in New South Wales, while the total area burnt appears to be the largest in a single recorded fire season for eastern Australia’.
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Me, fire fighting.
 
frenchman

frenchman

Eats cheese. Sells crack.
hifiandmtb said:
Are you getting confuxored between back burning & hazard reduction?

My comment was to do with "let go into the forest and fell trees and...something something with the stuff we've felled hey lets burn it as it's energy like petrol". I wasn't talking about burning in place, I was responding to the idea that what's felled is burned for energy.



@Oddjob The Finland reference is this: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/19/make-america-rake-again-finland-trump-forest-fire Can't believe you didn't know about this?

Try wandering off into the Wollomi wilderness, thinning the forest & see how effective you are.

Fuck me!
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So wtf does Finland raking the forest have to with fire management in aus? Are you arguing with yourself here?
Hazard reduction is effective at preventing large future fires. This and back burning on a massive scale works. I still don’t get why you’re so against it.
 
frenchman

frenchman

Eats cheese. Sells crack.
@hifiandmtb i don’t think you quite appreciate how difficult it is operating a fleet of fire fighting aircraft either. The extreme cost isn’t the main hurdle, it’s the lack of industry training and regulation that makes it unachievable. You’d be hard pressed to find anyone working for the regulator that has any aerial ag experience let alone time fighting fires.
The reason most of the qualified crew come in from OS is the lack of local candidates.
 
mark22

mark22

Likes Dirt
The RFS was responsible for burning homes during some of their Backburning operations with the last fires in NSW. My guess is we will see not much of that if any in the future especially trying to use it when you don't have the fire contained.
 
Oddjob

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
hifiandmtb said:
@Oddjob The Finland reference is this: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/19/make-america-rake-again-finland-trump-forest-fire Can't believe you didn't know about this?

Try wandering off into the Wollomi wilderness, thinning the forest & see how effective you are.

Fuck me!
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Trump says so many whacko things every day it's easy to miss some of the crazy.

The way I see it, California has all the firefighting resources you could want and they still can't contain firestorms that create their own weather. The consensus from their experts is that fuel reduction needs to be part of a unified fire management strategy.

Given that we share a similar climate and problems, I would think that we could learn a lot from California.



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Oddjob

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Freediver said:
Consensus?
www.latimes.com

California is spending $32 million on a fire prevention strategy that doesn't work in high winds

Gov. Gavin Newsom is rushing to build $32 million in fuel breaks, even though they have repeatedly failed to protect communities in wind-driven wildfires.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com
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It's only one part of a unified strategy. There's nothing in that article that denies that.

Have a look at that Berkeley technical article that I linked to earlier.

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