2010 World Solo 24 Hour Championships

[akashra]

Can he really charge $25 for a lottery. How do we know there is no bias. If you are charging money for a lottery would you then need a representative of the Auditor-General’s Department to supervise the draw as it is an Australian event?

That would depend if it is considered the lottery is being run from here or from O/S

If run from here then would require a raffles and bingo permit.

Much like online gambling, if based O/S not much you can do

Roland

Jason is entirely correct.

Essentially games of skill require competition permits, games of luck do.
Unless the selection criteria are specifically spelled out, it becomes a game of chance, in which case yes, it requires a competition permit.

If I were them I wouldn't want to be testing the "is it based here or overseas" one. The simple solution is to publish their competition permit number so it can be followed up if there's any queries.

Frankly I think it's laughable that the reigning world champion is on a waiting list.

 

[alchemist]

Frankly I think it's laughable that the reigning world champion is on a waiting list.

Well yes, but he had plenty of time to enter.

 

[QZ13]

Is Stu an eager Trekkie fan by any chance?

 

[DaGonz]

Jason is entirely correct.

Essentially games of skill require competition permits, games of luck do.
Unless the selection criteria are specifically spelled out, it becomes a game of chance, in which case yes, it requires a competition permit.

How does it affect you anyway?

to my mind, you're affectively applying for a "wild card" entry. 24 sports makes a decission on how that wild card is awarded and to who, some people are happy, others arn't, the race goes on. If you feel disadvantaged by it, then it probably would have been wise to get your entry in sooner. There was plenty of notice from the onset there would be a cap and more when that cap started getting close. Who'd have thunk we'd get 300+ riders to a solo only 24hr event?

*shrug*

Cheers
Spoonie

 

[QZ13]

affectively applying for a "wild card" entry.

then it's uncool to charge $25 a go and call it a lottery*.

Unzud, here I come




*lot·ter·y   [lot-uh-ree] Show IPA
–noun,plural-ter·ies.
1.
a gambling game or method of raising money, as for some public charitable purpose, in which a large number of tickets are sold and a drawing is held for certain prizes.
2.
any scheme for the distribution of prizes by chance.
3.
any happening or process that is or appears to be determined by chance: to look upon life as a lottery.

 

[akashra]

How does it affect you anyway?

to my mind, you're affectively applying for a "wild card" entry. 24 sports makes a decission on how that wild card is awarded and to who, some people are happy, others arn't, the race goes on. If you feel disadvantaged by it, then it probably would have been wise to get your entry in sooner. There was plenty of notice from the onset there would be a cap and more when that cap started getting close. Who'd have thunk we'd get 300+ riders to a solo only 24hr event?

*shrug*

Cheers
Spoonie

Hang on, I want to see if I've got this right.
You're asking how it affects me that one of the largest mountain biking clubs in Australia could potentially get caught up in a questionably rigged lottery that has laws surrounding how these things must be conducted?

I don't have any intention on racing a the 24 or any qualifiers for it, but I sure as hell want to sure everythings run fair and legally. We have enough scandle in cycling with drugs - if they have a competition license for it, just print it already and this is all solved and moot.

"How does it affect you" isn't going to hold up as an argument if the relevant government agencies get involved, so personally I'd just like to see everything clarified so we can assure people it's going to be fair and handled properly.
Unlike in America, "We reserve all rights" doesn't hold up at all in Australia.

 

[DaGonz]

then it's uncool to charge $25 a go and call it a lottery.

What's it matter? Entries have reached a limit, this is the process required by the event organiser to apply for any remaining entries. If you really want an entry, you'll follow the process. If you don't then you won't. Fair/unfair;cool/uncool, it is how it is. $25 is not a lot in the scheme of things given entry is $400+ and the expenses around doing a 24hr solo are upwards of 100 times or more on that number...

Perhaps we'll see a flurry of "entries for sale" come September (no idea if they're transferable...)

Cheers
Spoonie

 

[QZ13]

I just like the way promoters rename ways to make money for my chance to enter that...
"24 sports makes a decission on how that wild card is awarded and to who, some people are happy, others arn't, the race goes on."

And then if you read the second line of my post there Spoon, I'm happily going to play elsewhere.

You have your entry I suppose, what's it matter to you how the paupers fight for the scraps? Perhaps we could Jelly Wrestle for the spots, $50 per ticket to come and watch

 

[Knopey]

It'd be great to get confirmation from the horse's mouth regarding the status of refunds for non-successful lottery enterers, before going all wiggidy-whack on them. If Russ/Stuart could clarify it would settle things a bit...

I must admit the thought of hopefuls getting charged to miss out on a spot makes me squirm like I have worms.

 

[toby]

Don't forget to get a permit for each state you are offering the prize within... It's a fair bit of paperwork but I understand the fines are significant if you miss one.

 

[Pizzaz]

I was about to post a rant along the lines of theres more competitors than places so random draw via lottery sounds like a good idea etc... then I went and actually read the release.

Its not really a lottery... its quite explicit that CORC and 24sports will decide who gets in. What you're really doing is paying $25 to get a place on the waitlist which, if successful, contributes to your entry fee.

Using the word lottery to describe this is problematic however, the basic process outlined seems ok... if you want to be on the waitlist then putting your money where your mouth is with ca$h sounds like a good thing - it demonstrates that you are prepared to commit

Random draw or organisers pick isn't the issue (apart from the use of the word lottery which is misleading), the thing that would concern me was that if it was supposed to be a lottery and then wasn't. In this case, the way that wildcard spots are allocated are pretty clearly spelt out... yeah it may not be 'fair' but step 1 to win a race is to get to the start line and its not like there wasn't a fair bit of advance notice that things were filling up!

 

[DaGonz]

And then if you read the second line of my post there Spoon, I'm happily going to play elsewhere.

Yeah I get that, it's just more a general statement.

You have your entry I suppose, what's it matter to you how the paupers fight for the scraps? Perhaps we could Jelly Wrestle for the spots, $50 per ticket to come and watch

Well, I personally think 24 sports are being more than fair here. They've advertised the cap *and* that they were getting close to it. They've declared they'd honour qualifiers for any remaining qualifying events and most had plenty of opportunity to enter before the cap was reached. Call it what you want, a lottery, wild card, whatever... they've been pretty upfront on their documentation that they will hand out remaining entries in a manner at their discretion. I would suggest, all they have to do to escape any possible gaming legislation complete here is replace "lottery" with "entry wildcard system" and call the $25 an entry application processing fee. whatever process is used behind the scenes then is completely up to them. You either accept it for what it is or you don't. The rest is just semantics...

But Jelly wrestling would be cool... or we could shoot apples of heads with a bow and arrow? might kill two birds with one stone! hand out remaining entries to the winners whilst simultaneously reducing the size of the waiting list

Cheers
Spoonie

 

[spikenet]

$25 paid.. come what may! Good luck to those in the lottery!

 

[btothec]

Signed up to the "Lottery" now. Come on lucky numbers!!!!

Also I've edited my previous post re refunding of your $25 if you don't win a lottery spot. I misread the info this morning when I first looked at it. Sorry about any confusion.

 

[Dreggsy]

Yeah I get that, it's just more a general statement.
Well, I personally think 24 sports are being more than fair here. They've advertised the cap *and* that they were getting close to it.
Cheers
Spoonie

I'm going to have to agree with DaGonz here.
We've all had plenty of time to get our shit sorted.
I managed to get my deposit in on time as I wanted to do the race, this was after Stu sent out the email saying it was getting close to filling up for us Aussies.

I wonder when the rider list will go up?

i must have missed a thread or 2 but where did you find out about the "lottery"

 

[btothec]

Yeah I realize it's my on stupid fault I didn't get around to entering early but over the last few months one thing has lead to another and I haven't had to coin to enter. Oh well I have a shot in the "Lottery" if not there is always Merida 24hr.

 

[jmcavoy]

I'm going to have to agree with DaGonz here.
We've all had plenty of time to get our shit sorted.

Me too, who would have thought I'd ever agree with you two LOL

I entered this race in November, so everyone has had over 6 months to enter... plenty of time if you were serious about it. When other events sell out, they are sold out, stiff bananas if you missed the boat; so I think it's awesome CORC and 24HOA are offering any sort of way in for people that didn't enter on time. You guys should be thanking them instead of complaining I reckon.

Well Im on the waiting list for a spot. I plan on heading up to the Merida just in case....

And RED_RACER, didn't you have several free entries you could have used? You dufus! You have no excuse I am sure the defending champ will get short cut through the waiting list though, if it hasn't been done already.

 

[adz]

I really feel for those who missed out...

I am mates with Ben and Jas(Btothec and Red/Blue Racer) who both missed out. Sure it's laughable that the 2009 world champ might miss the event but should world champ status give him more right to enter than Ben? Ben trains/works/sacrifices etc as hard as Jas. Jas just chose his parents better! I hope they both get in.

Its tricky enough for a philosophy class discussion.

Adz

 

[adz]

I guess if either is desperate for a physical challenge they could do Busselton or Port Ironman.

 

[alchemist]

And RED_RACER, didn't you have several free entries you could have used? You dufus! You have no excuse

Like many athletes, he may be fast, but he aint smart.