2017 world cup discussion

Beej1

Beej1

Senior Member
Mywifesirrational said:
Another vote for Minaar, simply because of the duration of his consistency.
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And because, realistically, there's really no indication he's slowing down. He could be winning races next season. The season after.

I remember thinking he was about ready to wind down years ago, expecting him to just fade into the distance. But he was always there, in the top 20 or so riders. Just lurking.

Mingnaar outdoes Vouilloz in my book too. Not that my book is worth shit in the grand scheme of things.
 
The Dude

The Dude

Wasn't asking to be banned
Dozer said:
Oh boy, this is a seriously tough thing to discuss. Nico Vouilloz is good, was great in that time and would still kick butt in today's standards but is he the best ever? I don't reckon he is, it may sound a bit biased coming from an Aussie but I think Sam Hill's incredible years set the benchmark for what the greatest downhiller of all time should be. In more recent times, Aaron Gwin did the same thing by totally annihilating the field by big margins and made everyone catch up. Actually, Nico did the same so it is bloody hard to say any of them is better than the other..............................Greg Minaar is though. The win count and the length of time he's been winning speaks for itself. He's got to be considered the greatest, he's still a chilled guy kicking goals and beating these younger guys at the same game he's been doing for a long time. Very tough to call though!
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Yep, the old pub debate! Never any definitive answer.
It's almost impossible to compare era against era - Nico didn't seem to rack up the WCup wins like Greg (or Peaty), but he was ALWAYS the one to beat at the WChamps. And I think that's the one everybody remembers over time. Ten in a row; I don't think we'll ever see that again.
But, never say never.
 
Dozer

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
The Dude said:
Yep, the old pub debate! Never any definitive answer.
It's almost impossible to compare era against era - Nico didn't seem to rack up the WCup wins like Greg (or Peaty), but he was ALWAYS the one to beat at the WChamps. And I think that's the one everybody remembers over time. Ten in a row; I don't think we'll ever see that again.
But, never say never.
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You're right, ten world champs in a row is amazing.
One rider I would also chuck into the mix for greatest ever is Fabien Barel. He doesn't have the numbers on the stat sheet to perhaps match the other guys I mentioned but fucking hell he can downhill. I remember being in Canberra in '09 for the World Champs seeing his run and thinking "Nope, that's the world champ right there" but damn, Peaty somehow jagged it with a lap that looked totally slow. I'd like to see a ton of sector times for that day 'cause there's no way the vision I had suggested Peat was quicker but like most lanky dudes, they look slow on the TV and funnily enough it's the same in person! With that in mind, I got pretty drunk that same evening and that may have slowed my memory a little. ;)
 
ajay

ajay

^Once punched Jeff Kennett. Don't pick an e-fight
Dozer said:
Oh boy, this is a seriously tough thing to discuss. Nico Vouilloz is good, was great in that time and would still kick butt in today's standards but is he the best ever? I don't reckon he is, it may sound a bit biased coming from an Aussie but I think Sam Hill's incredible years set the benchmark for what the greatest downhiller of all time should be. In more recent times, Aaron Gwin did the same thing by totally annihilating the field by big margins and made everyone catch up. Actually, Nico did the same so it is bloody hard to say any of them is better than the other..............................Greg Minaar is though. The win count and the length of time he's been winning speaks for itself. He's got to be considered the greatest, he's still a chilled guy kicking goals and beating these younger guys at the same game he's been doing for a long time. Very tough to call though!
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Yep. can really only go by the numbers. Also, quite apart from wins, Greg's presence on the podium is frightfully consistent.

I think riders like Sam, while being devastatingly dominant for a short time, are bar raisers. They take the sport into a new realm, redefining what is possible on 2 wheels, but eventually that becomes the new standard until someone like Gwin comes along and does it again. All the while, riders such as Minnaar are never get left behind. He's been through so many changes in the sport and has always been at the top, always been a threat, and can perform on any track, in all conditions. If my memory serves me correctly, at MSA he dislocated his shoulder mid run, he popped it back in and finished on the podium.

I think I just paraphrased you haha.
 
Dozer

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
sufferthesinglespeed said:
Agree totally
His race run was so good.
Deserved a win really, but then another lanky dude pipped him.
Shark Attack is certainly one to watch. And all that on a bike he only had for a week.
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Absolutely, the small amount of time on that thing can attest to how good he is on a bike and how good his run was.

ajay said:
Yep. can really only go by the numbers. Also, quite apart from wins, Greg's presence on the podium is frightfully consistent.

I think riders like Sam, while being devastatingly dominant for a short time, are bar raisers. They take the sport into a new realm, redefining what is possible on 2 wheels, but eventually that becomes the new standard until someone like Gwin comes along and does it again. All the while, riders such as Minnaar are never get left behind. He's been through so many changes in the sport and has always been at the top, always been a threat, and can perform on any track, in all conditions. If my memory serves me correctly, at MSA he dislocated his shoulder mid run, he popped it back in and finished on the podium.
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Did a group of us just declare Greg Minaar as the best downhiller ever regardless of results? I'm thinking yes, yes we did. :thumb:

So, Leogang is this weekend with women's from 9pm and the Gents at 11pm. We all know Leogang to be an awesome track and the riders love it so it's always a great race to watch PLUS we get Monday off in NSW to recover! Any predictions? We've seen some surprises so far and I can't see that changing in the coming rounds. If Gwin can keep air in his tyres and a chain on, surely he won't be beaten there?
 
ajay

ajay

^Once punched Jeff Kennett. Don't pick an e-fight
You'd be game to bet against Gwin at Leogang. But theres been quite few surprising results there too. I reckon the we'll see a podium not too dissimilar to Fort Bill, in both the mens and womens race.
 
Dozer

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
It just hit me; you'd love to be the Polygon United team manager just now. I'd be out selling my wares to get a bigger budget for next year if I was that guy. Two wins from two starts combined in the mens and women's.
 
Spike-X

Spike-X

Grumpy Old Sarah
I'm of two minds about it. I can understand the people who say it's World Cup downhill, it should be difficult and challenging. On the other hand, it's called mountain biking, not swamp biking.

I'm also swayed by my personal aversion to 'riding' (or rather, sliding down the hill and trying to stay upright) in mud. Not my idea of a good time at all. If I was in charge, I'd be saying to fook it off and replace it with something rideable.
 
ajay

ajay

^Once punched Jeff Kennett. Don't pick an e-fight
Spike-X said:
I'm of two minds about it. I can understand the people who say it's World Cup downhill, it should be difficult and challenging. On the other hand, it's called mountain biking, not swamp biking.

I'm also swayed by my personal aversion to 'riding' (or rather, sliding down the hill and trying to stay upright) in mud. Not my idea of a good time at all. If I was in charge, I'd be saying to fook it off and replace it with something rideable.
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Moir nailed it. People just need to ride better. There's been heaps of tracks over the years with insanely difficult sections.
 
moorey

moorey

call me Mia
Dozer said:
Bloody hell, that looks so bad, even if it was dry that would be a total cluster fuck to ride / walk / crawl.
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Jebus. No wonder that first bit caused problems. Why no camera there? Wooda made the race make more sense to watch...
 
ianganderton

ianganderton

Likes Dirt
silentbutdeadly said:
No. I can not ride that.

But the midges were clearly even worse than that...
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I was scratching at my face watching that last price to camera with all the midges!!??!!

They we mentioned a few times in the coverage. With the sun not shining it would have been bad


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Dozer

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
Spike-X said:
I'm of two minds about it. I can understand the people who say it's World Cup downhill, it should be difficult and challenging. On the other hand, it's called mountain biking, not swamp biking.

I'm also swayed by my personal aversion to 'riding' (or rather, sliding down the hill and trying to stay upright) in mud. Not my idea of a good time at all. If I was in charge, I'd be saying to fook it off and replace it with something rideable.
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Well, I've been holding off saying it but yeah, get rid of it. It's got some steeper parts but the flat parts fucked it. It made good riders look like total squids and didn't have the entertaining appeal of a tough section you had to ride at speed, it was just a bog hole. Tracks evolve though, that wasn't that chaotic on day one but it needs a lot of work to make it interesting.

This is a good read from Drit magazine. It throws some weight in each direction for the case of the 29er wheel and asks are we seeing the quickest riders or the quickest bikes on the podium: https://dirtmountainbike.com/features/unfair-advantage.html
 
Spike-X

Spike-X

Grumpy Old Sarah
Is there any clear video of Aaron Gwin's fuckup down the bottom that cost him at least second, and possibly first place? Never have I seen a man so dirty on himself after a race.
 
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