McBain
Likes Bikes and Dirt
The egg had been present in reproductive systems long before chickens, or indeed any birds, had evolved.
Egg wins!
Athiests: What will you say if we've got it wrong?
- Thread starter Techno Destructo
- Start date
Egg wins!
Regan of Gong
Likes Dirt
Coincidence?
McBain
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Quiet you, or I'll eat your babies.Coincidence?
BIGDave
Likes Dirt
I say its a good time to bring out a poll
Vicious_Fishes
Banned
BRING ON THE POLL.
POLL: do you think that believing any religion, after having all available evidence for believing and not believing presented to you, is a foolish thing to do ?
option one: YES
option two: YES
POLL: do you think that believing any religion, after having all available evidence for believing and not believing presented to you, is a foolish thing to do ?
option one: YES
option two: YES
whywalkwhenucanroll
Likes Dirt
Well, things do push on when you've been away for a bit...
I'm not going to argue much anymore but a couple of things I'd like to say:
1- This has been (for me) a good thread. I've learned a lot about my religion, and athiest's perspectives and arguments, as well as some general stuff.
2- I realise that neither party can be convinced either way. Christians cant argue people into heaven and athiests can't argue Christians out of it (me anyway).
3- I don't see a problem with evolution and general big bang theory. As far as I can see it fits well with the creation story except for one thing, us. How did we get to be so different? Our ability to create, our feelings and emotions, our ability to grasp complex ideas etc. Why is no other animal like us?
4- This is a wonderfully philosophical question... According to athiests, why are we here? If life is just a fluke of evolution and lots particles getting together with no one directing the show, then how are we any better then ants whose sole purpose in life is to collect food and make babies?
I'm not going to argue much anymore but a couple of things I'd like to say:
1- This has been (for me) a good thread. I've learned a lot about my religion, and athiest's perspectives and arguments, as well as some general stuff.
2- I realise that neither party can be convinced either way. Christians cant argue people into heaven and athiests can't argue Christians out of it (me anyway).
3- I don't see a problem with evolution and general big bang theory. As far as I can see it fits well with the creation story except for one thing, us. How did we get to be so different? Our ability to create, our feelings and emotions, our ability to grasp complex ideas etc. Why is no other animal like us?
4- This is a wonderfully philosophical question... According to athiests, why are we here? If life is just a fluke of evolution and lots particles getting together with no one directing the show, then how are we any better then ants whose sole purpose in life is to collect food and make babies?
danv
Likes Dirt
I don't think me and god would relate on this level.
But if it did happen, it'd go something like: "So god... what's it like being the projection of everything humans don't understand about spirituality?" At which point something would probably implode.
"He'd probably wag the finger at me for throwing my downstairs neighbour's cigarette butts (which she throws out her window onto the lawn) back in through her open window though. (But really, she throws them out her window first, and they're always completely out when I throw them back in....)." hahaha. I love it when wrongs can be so easily corrected.
scblack
Leucocholic
We are not different.
We are not better than ants, or dogs, we are simply another carbon based life-form on this planet - the different thing about us is that we developed bigger brains and the ability to grasp concepts.
Thats one thing about christians, they seem to feel we are the better creature, and that cows, pigs etc are only there for food for us.
Clearly from your comments you feel we ARE better than other animals. Why do you think that? You see ants as just eating, shitting, rooting and dying. How, in essence is that different from a humans life? We live, then we die, we get buried, how is that different from an ant?
You ask the question - why is no other animal like us. Try the chimpanzee, it shares 98% or so of our DNA, the only difference is we have larger brains, there is VERY LITTLE other difference.
Techno Destructo
Riding In Peace
But I think that is the root of his argument...
You can't deny we are the most resourceful, smartest, adaptable creatures on this planet.
We're also the dominant species.
Are you sure you just aren't arguing semantics with whywalkwhenucanroll now?
It sounds like you want to argue your definition of "better". And yes, we are all carbon-based lifeforms... but to argue that we're no different? Only if the scope of your argument is hovering around the idea of molecular composition...
themountainsrmybackyard
Likes Bikes
I suppose I'm an Athiest.
I don't really feel the need to justify my existance by believing in anything i'm here because thats the way it panned out and i'll just go with the flow and deal with problems as they arise (not to say that i don't have some sort of a plan)... i'm here to have fun, make some money, find a lady friend & have kids (one day) etc. What i know is true is that everyone has the right to believe whatever the fark they want to.
my 2c
I don't really feel the need to justify my existance by believing in anything i'm here because thats the way it panned out and i'll just go with the flow and deal with problems as they arise (not to say that i don't have some sort of a plan)... i'm here to have fun, make some money, find a lady friend & have kids (one day) etc. What i know is true is that everyone has the right to believe whatever the fark they want to.
my 2c
McBain
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Nah, ants way, way outnumber us.
I think you might have missed scblack's meaning - yes, humans have developed a more complex brain and society and all the rest, but we really aren't all that removed from other animals out there - the higher apes are really, really similar to us, as are quite a number of mammals.
I've seen creationists repulsed by the idea that we evolved from animals similar to modern apes, and even heard one guy on a TV program yell "I ain't descended from some kind of goo!" - well mate, you are. We are just meat popsicles, like all the other animals around us, albeit with opposable digits and complex reasoning ability.
Techno Destructo
Riding In Peace
But we don't really have a comparable competitor though. There's no "us" and "them"... some other species how could be considered our equal. Like the Morlocks and the... what was the other one?
Ah... whatever. You're right.
ExTrEmE FrEeRiDe
Likes Bikes
I found this on some guys myspace
The greatest single cause of atheism today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door and deny Him with their lifestyle. That's what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable
-Brennan Manning
I came upon this quote a couple of days ago and I really was taken away by it. The more and more I thought of it, the more and more i agreed with it. I probably don't agree that hypocritical Christians are THE leading cause of atheism, but i do think it plays a big role in it. But speaking of atheism, they, as atheists, claim there is no God. But how can you deny something or someone without first acknowledging it. By denying God, the also unknowingly acknowledge Him. In Romans chapter 1 verses 20-23, Paul speaks that through God's invisible qualities, his eternal power, and his divine nature that they have CLEARLY been seen. He goes on to say that since this is so clear that men have no excuse not to acknowledge Him. That leads us to choice. The choice between two things. Yourself (and the World) or Jesus. It's as simple as that. You can choose to accept and be with Jesus, or you are against him, there is no in between. Then, when we choose Jesus, we enter the world of Christianity. Our fogged eyes are cleared just so slightly as to see the littlest of God's grace. We will be able to realize the love and grace of Jesus when we come face to face with Him in Heaven. But being a Christian, literally meaning being Christ like, is not just a one time thing. It's not just about saying a magical prayer and then going on with sinful pleasures, it's about a relationship...a devoted one on one relationship with your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And guys if you really think about it...the grace of God is just AMAZING! We were born in a world of sin, a world of pain, a world of terror, and yet there is a way out...not only can we go to Heaven and be with our Savior, the price is already paid for. Our sins have been washed away by Jesus. He DIED on the cross for ALL of OUR sins. I mean just think how crazy awesome that is. And we repay Him by sinning everyday and barely giving Him the time out of our day to worship, praise and grow in our relationship with Him. One of my favorite verses comes from Titus 1:16..."They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good." And i think that ties in directly with that that quote from Brennan Manning. We claim all day that He is our Lord, He is our Savior, He is our King, He is number one in my life...but do our actions show it? Just take a second to take that in. We all know our ACTIONS speak louder than our WORDS, so saying all this stuff is good and all, but do our actions back up our talk? Are the things we do the same as the things we say? We all struggle with sin and temptations, but there is a way out. God always gives us a way out so that we can stand up under it. And for some reason i felt like i was led to write this blog...I don't know if it helps anyone or anything, but I just want to make a challenge. Let's let ourselves back up our talk. Let's LIVE the life Jesus wants us to live. Let's establish that personal relationship with Him and strengthen it everyday. Let's really show what we mean when we choose Jesus over ourselves and this world. In that way, we won't give men any more excuses for them to not admit the truth, that there is a God, a loving God who will always be there, who loves unconditionally, and will never fail you...EVER. I love you all and so does Jesus. Peace!
He is an American so itll sound preaty weird but i like his idea
What do you have to lose from being christian?.
If Christians are right we have heaven to wait for, if Athiests are right then its just death.
You face the same thing if you were christian and Christianity doesnt end up being true.
So really you cant lose by being Christian.
You could do far worse things then offer a prayer every once in a while.
The greatest single cause of atheism today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door and deny Him with their lifestyle. That's what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable
-Brennan Manning
I came upon this quote a couple of days ago and I really was taken away by it. The more and more I thought of it, the more and more i agreed with it. I probably don't agree that hypocritical Christians are THE leading cause of atheism, but i do think it plays a big role in it. But speaking of atheism, they, as atheists, claim there is no God. But how can you deny something or someone without first acknowledging it. By denying God, the also unknowingly acknowledge Him. In Romans chapter 1 verses 20-23, Paul speaks that through God's invisible qualities, his eternal power, and his divine nature that they have CLEARLY been seen. He goes on to say that since this is so clear that men have no excuse not to acknowledge Him. That leads us to choice. The choice between two things. Yourself (and the World) or Jesus. It's as simple as that. You can choose to accept and be with Jesus, or you are against him, there is no in between. Then, when we choose Jesus, we enter the world of Christianity. Our fogged eyes are cleared just so slightly as to see the littlest of God's grace. We will be able to realize the love and grace of Jesus when we come face to face with Him in Heaven. But being a Christian, literally meaning being Christ like, is not just a one time thing. It's not just about saying a magical prayer and then going on with sinful pleasures, it's about a relationship...a devoted one on one relationship with your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And guys if you really think about it...the grace of God is just AMAZING! We were born in a world of sin, a world of pain, a world of terror, and yet there is a way out...not only can we go to Heaven and be with our Savior, the price is already paid for. Our sins have been washed away by Jesus. He DIED on the cross for ALL of OUR sins. I mean just think how crazy awesome that is. And we repay Him by sinning everyday and barely giving Him the time out of our day to worship, praise and grow in our relationship with Him. One of my favorite verses comes from Titus 1:16..."They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good." And i think that ties in directly with that that quote from Brennan Manning. We claim all day that He is our Lord, He is our Savior, He is our King, He is number one in my life...but do our actions show it? Just take a second to take that in. We all know our ACTIONS speak louder than our WORDS, so saying all this stuff is good and all, but do our actions back up our talk? Are the things we do the same as the things we say? We all struggle with sin and temptations, but there is a way out. God always gives us a way out so that we can stand up under it. And for some reason i felt like i was led to write this blog...I don't know if it helps anyone or anything, but I just want to make a challenge. Let's let ourselves back up our talk. Let's LIVE the life Jesus wants us to live. Let's establish that personal relationship with Him and strengthen it everyday. Let's really show what we mean when we choose Jesus over ourselves and this world. In that way, we won't give men any more excuses for them to not admit the truth, that there is a God, a loving God who will always be there, who loves unconditionally, and will never fail you...EVER. I love you all and so does Jesus. Peace!
He is an American so itll sound preaty weird but i like his idea
What do you have to lose from being christian?.
If Christians are right we have heaven to wait for, if Athiests are right then its just death.
You face the same thing if you were christian and Christianity doesnt end up being true.
So really you cant lose by being Christian.
You could do far worse things then offer a prayer every once in a while.
PINT of Stella. mate!
Many, many Scotches
White flag of surrender?
Vicious_Fishes
Banned
what do you have to lose from being a pastafarian ?
if pastafarians are right, we go to heaven where there are beer volcano's and a stripper factory, if atheists are right then there is nothing.
you face the same thing if you are a pastafarian and atheists are right.
so really, you can't lose by believing in the flying spaghetti monster.
you could do far worse things than devote your life to building a pirate ship and spreading the word of the FSM.
i could start up a point about absolutely any character is as plausible as any of these "gods" but, i think you get the message.
scblack
Leucocholic
Techno, McBain has basically got my meaning right.
While, yes we are by far the dominant species on this planet, ultimately we are still mammals.
I was largely arguing why do christians see humans as the height of creation? We have just evolved further, and can dominate the planet.
Matt H
Eats Squid
Life is natures way of keeping meat fresh.
Doesn't that make you feel important?
I believe that this is the main reason for religion in general; It makes you feel a lot like your not some insignificant being. But you are.
ExTrEmE FrEeRiDe
Likes Bikes
hahaha rastafarian. ok maybe i was pushng it with the praying and stuff but wouldnt you prefer to belive your going somwere preferable a good place ie heaven when you die then just nothing.
rastafarian. ok maybe i was pushng it with the praying and stuff but wouldnt you prefer to belive your going somwere preferable a good place ie heaven when you die then just nothing.
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You're a great advertisment for being and Athiest, your arguements for Christianity are exactly the same arguements everyone else used against. Use your mind and make yoru own mind up, don't hedge your bets. You need to be true to yourself young skywalker.hahaha