DH WORLD CUP 2015 - follow the season here with predictions, laments and discussion!

[scblack]

Jeez that's a long bow to draw... just because he hasn't won a world champs race doesn't mean much. Peaty was a hero long before he won worlds. Sounds like yet another attempt to strip credibility from Gwin.

But Peaty came second multiple times before eventually winning one, and just missed others too. He was just not quite the winner many times. He lifted his game on the day, but JUST missed out, again and again.

Gwin has not registered anything as yet.

Do not imagine there is any attempt to reduce his standing. But a lot of people hold him up as the best ever rider. I argue that someone who cannot (so far) win the biggest, most important race of the year just can not be held on that pedestal.

 

[richie_gt]

I think very similar to you. Gwin has an ability to win World Cups and is an amazing rider no doubt. But in the full on pressure of the biggest race of the year he has consistently crashed out.

Sam Hill, Greg Minnaar and Gee Atherton have each won world cups but also World Championships multiple times. I'd say they each have an ability to raise the level of their riding beyond World Cup standards - possibly Gwin is peaking his standard at the World Cups and overstretching for World Championships.

I had a conversation with a pommie mate a few years back, which is on the same theme. In English soccer they do not have grand finals, or at least didn't when he was over there. He felt the best side possible was the one who topped the table at the end of the season, like the Minor Premiership. In Australia we've always had the finals series culminating in the Grand Final, and the winner on the day is the real Premiers. My argument was that the best side had the ability on the day of the Grand Final to lift their game for the biggest win of the year. As is always analysed, Grand Final football is different to the grind of standard round games.

Gwin has failed to lift his game that way, and I agree with you Richie. Gwin has (so far) not managed that top step.

Hit the nail on the head! It's not as if I don't rate Gwin it's just I don't put him in the same category as Hill, Minaar and Atherton etc. until he takes out a World Champs.

In reverse I look at Danny Hart in the same instance where he hasn't won a World Cup race! Although his World Champs win was amazing!

Jeez that's a long bow to draw... just because he hasn't won a world champs race doesn't mean much. Peaty was a hero long before he won worlds. Sounds like yet another attempt to strip credibility from Gwin.

Tall poppy syndrome from me as I sit at my desk and type! Haha! As I said above I rate Gwin but I just don't think he's the complete champion...time will tell!

 

[Dozer]

Having said all that, if DH made it into the Olympics, that'd totally be more important. Because Olympics.

Plus, you're world cup leader for a race, world champion for a year, and Olympic champion for four years. Most riders would be lucky to be selected, let alone relevant at two Olympics.

I have zero interest in the Olympics. Actually, I do. I like the photo shoots the alleged "up and coming" hot girls do to get some attention before they get slaughtered by the drug cheating mammoth women who replaced their blood with that of an Amazon warrior.

Keep the downhill how it is, the less exposure to mainstream corporate dribble, the more awesome it stays.

 

[ajay]

He's won something like 14 or 15 world cups since 2011, and 3 overalls. He's done that in half the time of Greg and Steve. His win rate is a ridiculous 40%.

Get ya hand off it!!

 

[shake_rattle_and_ roll]

World Cup Champion is a hard & well earnt title. If they then successfully take out the World Championships one day of the year race, well that's just testament & the jewel of their near-perfect season.

Far as I'm concerned anyone else outside of a top 3 overall ranking who wins World Championship crown is more often than not just the jester who nailed it on the day. Bit harsh I know.

Agreed about the basic facts & stats of Gwin for his career- the guy's phenomenal.

 

[.dan.]

I personally think that the whole World Champs event is a wank. A good rider will be able to pull out a win once in a blue moon. But a true champion will be able to consistently podium at most of the races across the season, while generally taking a few (or a lot) of wins along the way. The World Champion should be the person who won the overall series, not some one off race that is really no different to any world cup.

 

[indica]

I personally think that the whole World Champs event is a wank. A good rider will be able to pull out a win once in a blue moon.

So Loic doesn't deserve it?
Danny Hart doesn't deserve his win? He didn't just pull off a win he fucking destroyed everyone.

 

[Ivan]

The helmet cams are insane!

 

[shake_rattle_and_ roll]

Danny Hart doesn't deserve his win? He didn't just pull off a win he fucking destroyed everyone.

Don't know that he didn't deserve it, the performance more a freak meteorological event- they happen. And in Mens downhill you can rattle off 1/2 'all-time' performances within the last 12yrs. Let's face it, Hart hasn't really been able to follow it up with something we'd call consistent results. Him winning was indicative of his potential, not his race-in-race out performance. With the exception of 2011 I don't think he's finished inside the top 10 overall.

 

[.dan.]

So Loic doesn't deserve it?
Danny Hart doesn't deserve his win? He didn't just pull off a win he fucking destroyed everyone.

In my eyes the World Champion this year is Aaron Gwin. Loic deserved that win, but a one off race deciding who gets to be called World Champion is a bit of a joke. The world cup overall is so much harder to win because you have to put in a top performance at every single race of the year. Even some of the riders share the same opinion as me, Gwin and Rachel Atherton being two of them.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

In my eyes the World Champion this year is Aaron Gwin. Loic deserved that win, but a one off race deciding who gets to be called World Champion is a bit of a joke. The world cup overall is so much harder to win because you have to put in a top performance at every single race of the year. Even some of the riders share the same opinion as me, Gwin and Rachel Atherton being two of them.

I tend to agree, I put a lot more stock in consistent results across a range of tracks and weather conditions, than a single race, that may at times favor certain riding styles.

 

[indica]

Don't know that he didn't deserve it, the performance more a freak meteorological event- they happen.

No, he performed then when no one else could.

In my eyes the World Champion this year is Aaron Gwin. .

No, he is world cup champion.
Who gives a fuck what the title is?

 

[.dan.]

No, he is world cup champion.
Who gives a fuck what the title is?

The world cup champion doesn't seem to receive as much credit as the world champion. That's the problem, the UCI, the MTB media and a lot of riders and fans seem to hold the world champs in higher regard. Cycling seems to be one of the only racing sports I know of that has a world series plus a one off world champs race on top of that. With F1, Moto GP, MX, etc. the world champion is decided as being the person who wins the series, not a single race. World champs may work for Track cycling and perhaps road, but in my opinion, not so much for MTB.

 

[ajay]

No, he is world cup champion.
Who gives a fuck what the title is?

You do... evidently

 

[MARKL]

In my eyes the World Champion this year is Aaron Gwin...

The world cup champion doesn't seem to receive as much credit as the world champion. That's the problem, the UCI, the MTB media and a lot of riders and fans seem to hold the world champs in higher regard. Cycling seems to be one of the only racing sports I know of that has a world series plus a one off world champs race on top of that. With F1, Moto GP, MX, etc. the world champion is decided as being the person who wins the series, not a single race. World champs may work for Track cycling and perhaps road, but in my opinion, not so much for MTB.

Champs is the biggest race of the year simple as that and has always been that way in cycling and in many other sports. Clearly there is an argument that more importance should be placed on World Cup overall because it reflects many races and overall performance. Equally an argument can be made that Champs is more important cause it is the one day of the year where people put everything on the line, not racing for points just to be World Champ, the increase in drama is tangible. At the end of the day most people place more importance on Champs because of the term World Champion, it resonates with people, it means something to people outside the sport in much the same way that Olympic champion does. At the end of the day all the riders know how the system works and if you want to be World Champ you gotta win that race.

winning champs is the thing that sticks out with Gwinn, a rider who is freakishly consistently mind blowingly fast yet that one day of the year alludes him. Doesn't diminish my opinion of him him but it does stick out.

 

[jjperko]

winning champs is the thing that sticks out with Gwinn, a rider who is freakishly consistently mind blowingly fast yet that one day of the year alludes him. Doesn't diminish my opinion of him him but it does stick out.

To be honest it didn't surprise me he didn't win. Although he's won on pretty much every track - I'd like to see his stats in the rain on tight or slippery courses. Happy for someone to remind me of a race he's won like that but I can't remember any.

 

[Ivan]

Gwin set the fastest time on the bottom split, the wettest steepest section.

He's the fastest guy in the world at the moment, I have no doubts about that.

 

[ajay]

Gwin set the fastest time on the bottom split, the wettest steepest section.

He's the fastest guy in the world at the moment, I have no doubts about that.

After his crash he still set that pace? :hail:

 

[Ivan]

http://dirtmountainbike.com/racing-...-stats-vallnord-2015.html#rKBESeJoTjHCOs0O.97

Yeah, I'm guessing he wanted to see if he had the pace to win.

 

[hifiandmtb]

Gwin set the fastest time on the bottom split, the wettest steepest section.

He's the fastest guy in the world at the moment, I have no doubts about that.

Troy fell off & was only 6s off the winning time. I think Troy is potentially quicker.