DH WORLD CUP 2015 - follow the season here with predictions, laments and discussion!

jjperko

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Gwin set the fastest time on the bottom split, the wettest steepest section.

He's the fastest guy in the world at the moment, I have no doubts about that.
He is, but sometimes you need to go slower to go faster and I think Loic did a better job of that on the day. It reminded me of Champery worlds where Gwin was in touch with Harts time but punted himself into a tree trying to avoid dabbing brakes on a narrow off camber. I just think in drier conditions Gwin would've smoked everyone.

Maybe I'm just searching for a weakness. He's ruined too many exciting DH races for me this year!
 

ajay

^Once punched Jeff Kennett. Don't pick an e-fight
That'd be a short lived trip to Norco, or an interesting departure from France....
 
No, he performed then when no one else could.
No denying that- lay down a devestating run he did, in biblical conditions. Just stating that true to his consistency, he pulled a cat outta the bag on that day. We all agree that while it may very well be in title, Danny Hart isn't necessarily the measure of what we'd consider a world champion.

Out if curiosity, Hart's win- was that the largest winning margin in champs DH history?
 

frenchman

Eats cheese. Sells crack.
Kovarik still holds onto that. 14seconds. Fort William 2002

Ah, just re read what you posted. World champs winning margin. I think hart has that one.
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
My 2c:

I rate the Cup higher than the Champs.

Consistency over trails, conditions, psychological states, good prep, fitness, etc. etc. is more admirable than one win on one day. I get the pressure of the Champs and all that but some one who can pull it together more times than anyone else over a range of challenges is just more credible as a "champion" to me.

Whilst I'm stoked for Bruni, I just can't understand how some one who has more seconds than wins can be rated above some one like Gwin who has more wins than seconds.
 

dh1

Likes Dirt
Which one do the riders generally hold as a higher achievement?
To be honest I hate it when the previous would champ is in the start gate and the commentator mentions the fact that they are world champion, fair enough to give them credit as they do deserve it, but depending who the rider is in a World Cup race it means nothing to me. For instance if it is Danny Hart, great rider and insane run he did to become a world champ but in a World Cup I'm not expecting great things from him, sure he may win the race but I don't see him winning the overall next year. But Bruni though, winning Champs but also being so consistent throughout the series is one where I expect 'champion' to mean something and see it as through his riding at nearly every round next year.
 

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
My 2c:

I rate the Cup higher than the Champs.

Consistency over trails, conditions, psychological states, good prep, fitness, etc. etc. is more admirable than one win on one day. I get the pressure of the Champs and all that but some one who can pull it together more times than anyone else over a range of challenges is just more credible as a "champion" to me.

Whilst I'm stoked for Bruni, I just can't understand how some one who has more seconds than wins can be rated above some one like Gwin who has more wins than seconds.
I completely agree. In fact, I can't see a point in having a world championship's when a series is being run other than to satisfy the UCI's credibility. I'd rather see that race as a round of the world cup season and the world champion being the guy who wins the series.

Fuck the rainbow stripes. :llama:
 

Ivan

Eats Squid
The reason for the world championships is that countries can fund athletes to go. It can be an opportunity for riders from poor countries, who may not be able to get sponsors due to a lack of visibility or races in their country, to compete against the best in the world.

DH is an expensive sport. Most people in the world couldn't afford to race world cups as a privateer
 

ajay

^Once punched Jeff Kennett. Don't pick an e-fight
I think the world champs is great. Its an awesome race with everyone throwing down an all or nothing run for a chance at the stripes. It has its place. But the fact that the majority of world cup racers rate the overall series win as the bench mark should be enough to satisfy anyone who has questions about its validity.
I'm really not sure why it polarizes so many people... I'm sure the Minnaars and Gwins of this planet would have a chuckle about it.
 

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
The reason for the world championships is that countries can fund athletes to go. It can be an opportunity for riders from poor countries, who may not be able to get sponsors due to a lack of visibility or races in their country, to compete against the best in the world.

DH is an expensive sport. Most people in the world couldn't afford to race world cups as a privateer
Slightly related, I've seen a lot of points of the selection process for team riders representing their country in the world champs and in the cases I've seen it's all been about throwing tons of money at it and getting some exposure:
Exhibit A - A young rider with social riding parents wins a few club races in a category set up to give that rider the win. The other entrant (read that again, the only other entrant) is a hack, a person who comes out for fun and to meet new folks. The parents then market the young rider as a winner, beats all in it's path. The local club (staffed by the parents of the young rider) then think there's a serious lack of racing in the area and rally the surrounding clubs into creating a series that the elite riders can all get together and race in! Let's make this series recognised as a way to gather some UCI points! Again, this series has a category put in place for the young rider to win. The marketing machine rolls on, the young rider races a few national rounds and gets fucking schooled in the correct category. No big deal, we'll enter this young rider into every possible race Australia wide just to garner some support and keep brainwashing the local media into thinking this young rider is anything other than Mum and Dad's play toy. The machine rolls on.............the young rider offers a cash bonus to a team to ride for the team, thats not entirely unheard of but the rider is paying a team to wear their colors and sponsors. The young rider then gets a passport and uses the ammo that it has enough points to enter a world cup!!!! Yay, thanks Mum and Dad! The young rider is marketed extremely well locally and says it is amazing to compete competitively in a world cup finishing in the top fifty! The top fifty of the world! Wow!!!!!!!


There's 51 entrants. The young rider is in a four lap race and is lapped by the entire field on lap two. The rider finishes in position fifty after another rider pulls out. The next scheduled race starts while this young rider is still on the course. Good result though! Top fifty! That gives enough momentum to the machine to enter another one! This time around it rains and the young rider bails on the first lap, the local media release states the rider as saying "I had a mechanical failure on my bike that forced me out of the race". The (insert brand name) mechanic tells me that there is nothing wrong with the bike and the rider bailed because it hasn't ridden mud before.
The machine rolls on. The rider manages to snare an entry into an Enduro world series race. The rider rocks up to the start line with a borrowed fullface that is two sizes too big. The rider does the first stage and crashes more times than Windows '95 and again says the bike failed. The local media machine is fed more lies stating that the rider couldn't get a finish because of other entrants crashing on the course and holding the race up. The rider comes home from a super successful journey racing across Europe, finishing in the top fifty at one of the biggest races in the world!
The young rider gets another entry to an Enduro world series race and enters the pump track challenge at the same event. The young rider Rolls out of the start gate and snap's it's wrist on the first touch of a bike in that country. The media then reports (this one is the best, it really is) that the track is unsuitable for riders of this caliber and should be changed!!!! The machine rolls on..............The young rider gets a spot on a national team and enters the world championships for the given category. Gets lapped twice by the leader but is stoked to finish it's first race overseas! The media being pushed onto people does not say that the rider is the slowest rider in the world but still, Mum and Dad are proud to work hard and fund their child's dreams! Rant over. /
I know a lot of riders are picked on skill and results but giving someone a gig just because the funds are there is something that needs to be arseholed from sport. I'd rather watch a field of skilled riders over a field of cashed up hacks any day. The system reeks of pooh and is never straight forward for a new comer to understand.
 

richie_gt

Likes Bikes and Dirt
The reason for the world championships is that countries can fund athletes to go. It can be an opportunity for riders from poor countries, who may not be able to get sponsors due to a lack of visibility or races in their country, to compete against the best in the world.

DH is an expensive sport. Most people in the world couldn't afford to race world cups as a privateer
I think the World Champs is great! Everyone seems to get into it with some having custom painted bikes, parts and kit! (Yes I know this would be sponsored but meh!)

I'm sure any athlete would be proud to put on their countries colours and compete! For some sports the stage is the Olympics...for DH it's the World Champs!
 

ajay

^Once punched Jeff Kennett. Don't pick an e-fight
Slightly related, I've seen a lot of points of the selection process for team riders representing their country in the world champs and in the cases I've seen it's all been about throwing tons of money at it and getting some exposure:
Exhibit A - A young rider with social riding parents wins a few club races in a category set up to give that rider the win. The other entrant (read that again, the only other entrant) is a hack, a person who comes out for fun and to meet new folks. The parents then market the young rider as a winner, beats all in it's path. The local club (staffed by the parents of the young rider) then think there's a serious lack of racing in the area and rally the surrounding clubs into creating a series that the elite riders can all get together and race in! Let's make this series recognised as a way to gather some UCI points! Again, this series has a category put in place for the young rider to win. The marketing machine rolls on, the young rider races a few national rounds and gets fucking schooled in the correct category. No big deal, we'll enter this young rider into every possible race Australia wide just to garner some support and keep brainwashing the local media into thinking this young rider is anything other than Mum and Dad's play toy. The machine rolls on.............the young rider offers a cash bonus to a team to ride for the team, thats not entirely unheard of but the rider is paying a team to wear their colors and sponsors. The young rider then gets a passport and uses the ammo that it has enough points to enter a world cup!!!! Yay, thanks Mum and Dad! The young rider is marketed extremely well locally and says it is amazing to compete competitively in a world cup finishing in the top fifty! The top fifty of the world! Wow!!!!!!!


There's 51 entrants. The young rider is in a four lap race and is lapped by the entire field on lap two. The rider finishes in position fifty after another rider pulls out. The next scheduled race starts while this young rider is still on the course. Good result though! Top fifty! That gives enough momentum to the machine to enter another one! This time around it rains and the young rider bails on the first lap, the local media release states the rider as saying "I had a mechanical failure on my bike that forced me out of the race". The (insert brand name) mechanic tells me that there is nothing wrong with the bike and the rider bailed because it hasn't ridden mud before.
The machine rolls on. The rider manages to snare an entry into an Enduro world series race. The rider rocks up to the start line with a borrowed fullface that is two sizes too big. The rider does the first stage and crashes more times than Windows '95 and again says the bike failed. The local media machine is fed more lies stating that the rider couldn't get a finish because of other entrants crashing on the course and holding the race up. The rider comes home from a super successful journey racing across Europe, finishing in the top fifty at one of the biggest races in the world!
The young rider gets another entry to an Enduro world series race and enters the pump track challenge at the same event. The young rider Rolls out of the start gate and snap's it's wrist on the first touch of a bike in that country. The media then reports (this one is the best, it really is) that the track is unsuitable for riders of this caliber and should be changed!!!! The machine rolls on..............The young rider gets a spot on a national team and enters the world championships for the given category. Gets lapped twice by the leader but is stoked to finish it's first race overseas! The media being pushed onto people does not say that the rider is the slowest rider in the world but still, Mum and Dad are proud to work hard and fund their child's dreams! Rant over. /
I know a lot of riders are picked on skill and results but giving someone a gig just because the funds are there is something that needs to be arseholed from sport. I'd rather watch a field of skilled riders over a field of cashed up hacks any day. The system reeks of pooh and is never straight forward for a new comer to understand.
Name and shame, dozer!
 

caad9

Likes Bikes and Dirt
.........I know a lot of riders are picked on skill and results but giving someone a gig just because the funds are there is something that needs to be arseholed from sport. I'd rather watch a field of skilled riders over a field of cashed up hacks any day. The system reeks of pooh and is never straight forward for a new comer to understand.
I hope you don't follow any form of Motorsport Dozer!
 

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
I hope you don't follow any form of Motorsport Dozer!
See, thats where it shits me. I've always followed motor racing, competed too. It dominates my weekly viewing and I plan holidays around attending a motor race somewhere on the globe. You can see my frustration when it affects a sport that I compete in (mountain biking) to the point that I am very vocal about my lack of support for MTBA or any other agency that condones this shit. I know some folks in important places and I picked a few standout riders a while ago to put some effort into and used my resources to introduce them to the right people blah blah blah...........turned out to race world cup's for a long time, ran great in world champs and still pins it. That's how the system should roll, not a pay as you go scheme where the entrant is not skilled enough to compete but can anyway because the funds are there. Sure, you need money to compete at any level but it shouldn't be a proviso at the top level. Well, the "alleged" top level that is.

I can confidently say that in my younger days I was a faster rider than a lot of people that I watched race in person at the World Champs. Was I good enough to race? Helllllllllllll no!
 

Beej1

Senior Member
I'm sure any athlete would be proud to put on their countries colours and compete! For some sports the stage is the Olympics...for DH it's the World Champs!
I'd really like to know if that's the case in DH MTB.

In this country at least, I wonder how much whatever Australian sporting institution is responsible for putting the team together - how much money and support do they put forward to the riders? How much 'team training' is there? How much were Sam Hill's wins each: "A win for Australia"?

You'd probably have to ask each person, but my guess is that the most support comes from their professional team that looks after them, and they'd be more grateful to that team than Team Australia. For this sport I think it's more about the elite level professional DH racing community supporting each other than countries supporting riders.
 

Topperharley

Likes Dirt
I'd really like to know if that's the case in DH MTB.

In this country at least, I wonder how much whatever Australian sporting institution is responsible for putting the team together - how much money and support do they put forward to the riders? How much 'team training' is there? How much were Sam Hill's wins each: "A win for Australia"?

You'd probably have to ask each person, but my guess is that the most support comes from their professional team that looks after them, and they'd be more grateful to that team than Team Australia. For this sport I think it's more about the elite level professional DH racing community supporting each other than countries supporting riders.
The Junior Aussie setup is pretty good considering they have a huge hurdle to jump before they even get to a race (travel, lodging on the other side of the world). The support is there but needs to be tweaked. Back when Sharples was in charge, that's the era Sam Hill came from. Back to kids getting trained as riders and athletes in one location abroad and travelling from a base. Not sure exactly what Rennie does. But considering Crimmins, Max and Remy are all on factory deals there should be more money trickling down.

Kiwis get a pretty rough deal.
 
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