E Bike at Cross Country Endurance Event

[Mugger]

Personally I believe the best and most useful future for ebikes is commuting, but that doesn't mean I will be getting one.

I do enjoy sitting behind and getting a free tow on the commute home.

I ended up emailing the Flight Centre Epic organisers, can't say I'm ecstatic with their response. In the end it sounds like there were 3 e bikes and none were able to reach podium (none would have any way with their riding ability). It also sounds like MTBA has nothing stated to stop E bikes being allowed in these events for the moment?

Just emailing to ask what was the reasoning around allowing E bikes into the Flight Centre Epic race? I must admit I had some frustration being held up by guys on E bikes on descents and then getting smoked on the up hill before the process starting again on the next descent.

I understand there is perhaps a push to open the event to new riders but i just doesn't seem fair to allow these bikes at the event when the event is really about pushing your body to its physical limit and removing that aspect of it completely defeats the purpose of calling it an "epic" race. It was seriously frustrating and demoralising climbing up fire roads with cramped legs and then seeing someone come past on an E bike cruising up at SFA effort. The whole purpose of the flight centre epic is around the physical punishment that the course gives you and the amount of preparation and training required to sustain that intensity over the duration of the ride.


After speaking to a number of people after the event I feel like I'm not the only one with the opinion about E bikes being disallowed from entering the race. They should either be left to start at a different time, be riding a different course or flat out not involved at all. The race is about physical and mental endurance, doing it on a bike that gives you 90% of the effort is like saying you completed a triathlon and you only did the running segment (that would entail more effort than riding an e bike anyway).

Thanks for the email.I agree the Epic is about pushing your body. I think those on the e-bikes probably were also pushing their body to the limits by completing the distance too. It's a personal challenge and everyone's challenge can be different
Hope to see you on the trails again soon.

I wouldn't have reacted as badly if it was a social ride and I wasn't cramping up badly at the time. The emotions were raw.

In the end, E bikes are coming but for me they shouldn't be at these events and if they are then race a different day as clearly us pedalling mortals are holding them up on the climbs. I had a good time at the epic and the riders had no real influence on my result (or diabolical performance in fact).

 

[creaky]

Dave T is a general legend and he ain't holding back in that rant. A bit over the top but we need people to take the extreme view on both sides for the issue to be taken seriously.

I also recall that his missus may have been bashed off the track by an e-biker a few months ago .....

 

[Paulie_AU]

I do have to say that I know one of the female riders is a competent and experienced mountainbiker. Isn't necessarily fair to label all ebikers as inexperienced riders.

Still agree they have little place in a endurance event inless a dedicated class. Given the epic was 2 different loops for the full 92 if there ever were a big swag of ebikes it would be easy to have them hit the second loop first.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Masturbation racing sometimes involves vibrators.

So, if i was inclined to race in such an event, are there limits on motor size and where is the best place to stick such a device.

https://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS13416J.htm

 

[ForkinGreat]

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/history-and-deception-opinion.html

 

[pink poodle]

So, if i was inclined to race in such an event, are there limits on motor size and where is the best place to stick such a device.

https://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS13416J.htm

From the small amount I know...there are classes for different motor sizes, just like motorcycle or car racing. It's a very well organised and professional circuit.

As for placement, if you mean during events/competitions (?), it is completely open to your freestyle onterpretation. In the more high powered classes some people have started to use neck braces in recent years. If you just mean for general storage, keep it in a cool dry place.

 

[Dozer]

I entirely agree with Mr David Turner.

If you are too unfit to enjoy a mountain bike, get fit.

This industry "progression" scares the shit of me.

Thanks for sharing that, it's easily the best reference I've read regarding motorized bikes.

I know downhiller riders who would disagree with you! :heh:

I've seen it time and time again where the apparent unfit fat guy that rides downhill borrows a bike and shows up to an XC ride and pins it, even showing up half the guys in all the gear.

 

[slowmick]

So, if i was inclined to race in such an event, are there limits on motor size and where is the best place to stick such a device.

https://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS13416J.htm

You must get some interesting ads via google if that research paper turned up in your ASTM standard searches. I wonder what he named her?

 

[mtb101]

I entirely agree with Mr David Turner.

If you are too unfit to enjoy a mountain bike, get fit.

This industry "progression" scares the shit of me.



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just put that out again. *like and spot on.

 

[stirk]

Thanks for sharing that, it's easily the best reference I've read regarding motorized bikes.



I've seen it time and time again where the apparent unfit fat guy that rides downhill borrows a bike and shows up to an XC ride and pins it, even showing up half the guys in all the gear.

The downhill dude rides extra fast to stay in front of the Lycra brigade so they don't have to endure all those colourful man bulges!

 

[John U]

Would this race organiser just be sayin' 'we'll accept entries from anyone who turns up'? That's how I'm reading his response.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

You must get some interesting ads via google if that research paper turned up in your ASTM standard searches. I wonder what he named her?

For sure, it's also via the works / universities internet access, being in the clinical side of physiology / anatomy, we seem to get away with anything that's not pure filth.

 

[Ideate]

If you are too unfit to enjoy a mountain bike, get fit.

What's with all the question marks? You seem to have a surplus.

Surplus question marks represent that expression when you're looking at someone but can't figure out if they're actually being serious or not.

You're saying... anyone that wants to have fun in anything can't unless they're an expert or fit in that thing. Are. You. Serious? So if I'm not fit, then I can't enjoy mountain biking via ebikes? If I'm not fit, then I can't enjoy swimming at the beach with flippers? If I hate game controllers, then I can't enjoy FPS games via a keyboard and mouse? Fuck off kent.

Not forgetting the context of this tread is ebikes at a mtb endurance race.

All my edits come back to this point. There's no sportsmanship in racing an ebike in a non ebike event. Completely agree. The training and effort put in to prepare for racing should be the difference maker and if you're rocking up on an ebike to supplement your fitness for racing purposes then shame on you.

I know downhiller riders who would disagree with you! :heh:

Yes, I'm one. I still don't like the stigma that riding an ebike is effortless either. Riding any bike takes effort and sweat and a level of fitness. You still have to work really hard to get to the level of a fit XC rider on a pedal assist bike. If you think about it, it takes MORE effort and skill and strength in some areas of riding. Ebikes are still a lot of effort but it's now FUN where it wasn't before.

I'm curious.. What would happen in this scenario; EVERYONE got fit and bought an Aldi's 29" special and rode up fireroads and trails slightly faster than we see now?? What would you base your argument on then if there was more traffic or potential collisions? People getting fit? Or Aldi's 29" special price and marketing? Or.. ?

Dave T is a general legend and he ain't holding back in that rant. A bit over the top but we need people to take the extreme view on both sides for the issue to be taken seriously.

I also recall that his missus may have been bashed off the track by an e-biker a few months ago .....

What a prick (whoever bashed his missus off the track). Some people...


Maybe Turner does not have an invested interest in ebikes because he doesn't sell any. Is this possible? Also sounds like Turner is jelly beans because he can't afford to make ebikes. "...sexy product development and subsequent marketing will deal with the aftermath after they pay off their tooling costs haha". It'd be funny if he made one next year. I know he's saying that there'll be nowhere to ride ebikes because they'll ban them so all the jigs will go to waste but maybe more goverment officials will take up mountain biking because it's more accessible? Then all the corruption over in America would result in MORE trails instead of less?? Then what? Turner will go out of business because no one will be buying his bikes! No wonder he's upset.

Shred said the opposite.. of course Chris Cocalis (Pivot CEO) says ebikes are cool because he wants to sell his latest e-product. Maybe to a certain extent but if something actually feels good then it is good regardless of the marketing. If something like super pro boost 157+ actually gave a real world difference then fine. But some of that stuff is marketing.. ? Is it not? A bit like Hope's hub on the HB160. Hope said it's better. Are they trying to sell you their new hub design through fancy marketing? No. It's just good and works and presents a possible solution to a small problem. Pivot made an ebike so people could self-shuttle? They called it the Shuttle. It works, it's fun, it can turn sharp corners, it doesn't automatically collide with other people and it doesn't destroy trails. Will it bring hoards of traffic onto trails? Probably not, because it's most likely too expensive. So what's the issue again and why do I need a licence and disability to allow me to ride one??? Ohhh I remember now.. It's to do with entitlement. I'm the one with entitlement issues.



Edit: What if I strap a vibrator onto my bike? Does that make me gay? Or does it make my bike an ebike?

 

[stirk]

Edit: What if I strap a vibrator onto my bike? Does that make me gay? Or does it make my bike an ebike?

Is the vibrator strapped onto your seat in a vertical orientation?

Makes a difference on how I'd answer the question

 

[hifiandmtb]

To Ideate, read what David Turner said & that's how I feel. Yep. No doubt about it. Read it again if you didn't understand the first time.

Please don't get your knickers in a knot, I admire that you have built a custom ebike & realise you won't abuse the privilege to cause trail issues.

If you had bought an off the shelf ebike you would be a tool


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[jackthelad23]

Merida Ebike Tour

i noticed recently, through facebook, that Merida Ebikes, are doing a demo day around Australia
Minus WA....
As Ebikes have been determined to be motorised by DPAW in WA. As the trails sit in a water catchment area..
Therefore not allowed on the primary kalamunda trails, the number one place to ride on weekends in Perth...

 

[EMF]

Kilo watt

Hi Guys,


I'm after some opinions on this topic. On the weekend an event called the Flight Centre Epic (http://www.cycleepic.com/) was held here in QLD with a race held over a 92km track. This year was my first year doing it and frankly it pushed me to my absolute limit and I have no idea how I managed to get to the finish line.


Anyway, along the way I was getting stuck behind riders on E bikes on the descents and at the time I was unaware they were on E bikes. After passing them on the descents and making me way to the next climb I am then passed by them and only realise that they were on E bikes.


Now I'll be honest, I've never been a fan of e bikes but if it gets people outdoors and being active then whatever that's cool but is it wrong to think that riding an E bike in an endurance event (this one took me 7 hours) just feels completely wrong/hollow and cheating? I know it was completely disheartening to see these guys just cruising past pedalling with ease with their music blaring when at the time I was suffering massively from cramp and could barely turn the pedals.


I've probably come into the situation with a biased viewpoint but happy to be swayed...

Own E - class held on Saturday

Restrictions to power output - for what its worth

or just ride the Hiddenvale Park on any another day except FC Epic event

 

[Flow-Rider]

Let's get something straight. I am listening and understand what you're saying but your points are mostly invalid.

Old mate Aaron Chase doesn't seem to have issues in tight corners.

Doug from the Cog Bike Cafe doesn't seem to have problems either..

[video=youtube;BjiTen1QZx4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjiTen1QZx4[/video]


I don't have problems in tight corners on the Spit-e but I don't like riding that sort of thing going up hill anyway. Wait a second... Maybe it could be to do with the person riding the bike???? The PEOPLE again!??! I'm not disagreeing there's an obvious 7-10kg weight disadvantage in certain situations but again.. your point is.. what the hell is your point again? Ebike riders need to be registered because they give you problems in tight corners?? No wait. You can only have an ebike if you NEED one (must be disabled) AND you shouldn't be allowed to ride on trails with tight corners??.

That's far from a tight trail in my eyes, looks fairly wide compared to what I'm thinking of.

On top of all this you've also resorted to condescending, patronising, superiority. I was hoping for more conversation like this when I posted my Spit-e but unfortunately no one took the bait so I'm happy to oblige now. Things happen because people like to watch the world burn.

So in reality it sounds like you want to flame people with your e-bike arguments, I'm not against people that are going to use them in the right way. Other people have already explained to you that a lot of people will not have self control on the trails and it's in human nature for a lot of people to compete to be the fastest.
Problems will arise when people modify the e-bike or take it to it's limits where people humanly can't do those sorts of speeds and it's unexpected for people coming in the opposite direction. The laws on these bikes in parks is just a grey area ATM from what I understand and there's nobody checking that they comply to be legal pedelecs. Motors, wiring harnesses and switches need to be tamper proofed with seals and people enforcing that they're not touched. It's a bike with a motor on it's not a mountain bike and what else is allowed on mountainbike trails that's motorised.

Two things to this..

Pedal assist ebikes have little focus on speed. Yes you can buy a Stealth or strap a 6000w washing machine motor to your bottom bracket but I'm not talking about those types of ebikes and I fully agree that they don't belong on mountain bike trails. The ebikes like the Pivot Shuttle, Merida eOne-Sixty and Specialized Levo however are simply mountain bikes with a sprinkle of Cadel Evans in the drive trail for those thigh burning fireroads and challenging trail climbs. Everything else is completely the same so by your argument, if ebikes are not suited to older style trails then NO modern day mountain bike is suited to older style trails. Newer bikes go faster too don't they? There's arguably more uptake also so more people at shuttle days and on the trail in general? Today's bikes have more grip when climbing and 72t cassettes (faster?) etc. So what's the difference?.

Most old trails in my area are tight single trail with long blind corners, they were built well before the thought of having lots of bikes on the trails at any one time and there's not much room to pass people at speed. I'm going to tell you one more time, an off the self pedelec that weighs over 20kg and has a large battery pack slung as part of its down tube will struggle handling in corners at speed compared to a normal bike. You can easily manage the same speed with the pedalec even though it weighs a lot more and handles like a pile of puss. The speed of one going uphill can be twice the speed than a normal mountain bike and I've proved this by having a race with a pedelec on a 200 meter steep pinch. I averaged about 7ks on the climb and he passed me before the half way point, I might add that he was 72 years of age and I had a head start on him also. Give that bike to someone half his age and I bet they even climb it faster.

It just seems to me that you're just upset and don't want people to enjoy something that you can't. Or you're upset people have the potential to have more fun than you? Traffic maybe a legitimate point when ebikes become more affordable to the masses but that's what's happening now isn't it? Aldi just had a special on $300 29"ers?? I can't wait to go to the Youies next weekend to see them all patching their tubes in the middle of the track.

You're making me laugh now, I like going up as much as I go down. I don't see pedalecs any different than a motorbike and I've owned many motorbikes over the years. There's way better trails for motorbikes to be on than mountain bike ones. I like the simplicity of a mountain bike and I enjoy my time being away from motorised vehicles on the trails.

If you claim to be legit you have nothing to worry about if e-bikes get regulated.

 

[Paulie_AU]

Finally got around to clicking on that youtube link on the merida...... what a noisy POS. Ebikers need to put up with that? Fuck if its going to have a motor I want BRRRAAAPPPPP.

 

[steve jobs' pancreas]

ebike threads multiplying like ebike ownership

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