Electric Vehicles etc

Haakon

veni, vidi, volanti
Very early model S has been sitting outside a local garage for weeks at a time over the last year and a bit. Diagnosed, gets part, works for a bit then something else fails. Seemingly vicious circle. I think they are waiting on a piece of Musk's foreskin now.
Wonder how much is the car and how much is the knowledge base of the diagnostic guy. Either way, the early ones were certainly early in their learning curve - its always risky buying the first year or two of a new model from any automaker. But you'd probably be ok with getting one sorted if you lived in California, out here in the colonies not so much... Bit like the Alfa...
 

Dales Cannon

Odious Geriatric
Staff member
I know you lust to mother muskrat children but spend any amount of time searching these cars in the us and it is not uncommon and the level of support leaves much to be desired. Even worser than fiat.
 

Dales Cannon

Odious Geriatric
Staff member
It's called bias, @Dales Cannon.
There is some really good innovation and engineering. And some slack level shit. Decent support would make it a smooth journey and that doesnt seem to be part of the plan. Triumph of marketing with a good to great product which has some flaws. Is how I see it. Would love to get a wrecked one here for the price they sell in the us. Minor body damage in various locations renders them writeoffs and few are game to try something different.
 

rangersac

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I'm waiting for other major manufacturers to up their game. We need competition.
It's bloody frustrating that Nissan are yet to come up with some decent battery thermal management. From being the leader of the pack they've really pissed away the advantage of being the first mainstream EV provider. Their Gen 1 Japanese Leafs are really solid, very reliable well built cars with the exception of battery degradation. Really all they needed to do was fix this in the Gen 2 offering alongside the improvement in range.
 

Haakon

veni, vidi, volanti
I know you lust to mother muskrat children but spend any amount of time searching these cars in the us and it is not uncommon and the level of support leaves much to be desired. Even worser than fiat.
Yeah I know, their desire to control parts and service is even worse than Apple, and will drive DIYers like me nuts. I get the principle theyre applying, but i think the implementation is doing them more damage than good.

For a new manufacture, they're incredibly impressive in what they've achieved in under a decade, but that doesn't mean i have rose coloured glasses and understand their QA/QC still leaves a lot to be desired. They'll get there, but an early model S would be getting tricky to own by now, especially in Australia. A good proposition for the dedicated DIY EV enthusiast, but not when youre paying someone to fix it - just like Fiat ;)

It seems RHD markets will be supplied Model 3 from the Shangai factory, will be interesting to see how the QC on those cars is compared to Fremont.
 
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Haakon

veni, vidi, volanti
I'm waiting for other major manufacturers to up their game. We need competition.
I understand Tesla themselves remain as surprised as anyone no one has stepped up yet. The chinese are the closest (Geely with their Polestar 2, and the Xpeng P7) so far, but the Germans seems to have belatedly got the memo too.
 

Scotty T

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Tesla don't make petrol cars, that's the difference for me. It shits me that they are over complicated. Just make a car, I don't need it to drive itself or come to me from the car park, put all that money into improved quality. I'd still have one if I was planning to spend that much on a car.

Pretending that only Tesla has the kind of issues being discussed and that they happen to most Teslas is a bit wrong. My VW Golf has this thing where it intermittently turns the volume down when rotating the knob in a clockwise direction. VW at first couldn't diganose it, then they said they updated some firmware, it seemed OK because it was so intermittent. The fix was replacing the entire head unit which they said they would do at one stage but then said the firmware was the fix. It's now out of warranty and the issue still intermittently happens, but never when it went in for service.

Not to mention the money we're going to receive at some point for having had one of their diesel gate cars.

People are quick to jump on Nissan too for the lack of thermal management in the batteries, again there's a presumtion that every Leaf ever ran out of battery capacity too quickly because they don't have cooling which isn't the case. Plenty of them are still working just fine with a bit less range than they used to have, but still enough for 90% of people's actual transport needs. It's a battery pack, not a magical energy unicorn, they can and do lose capacity. Then they can go on to power buildings.

If we're gonna talk about biases, maybe we can address the ones around petrol cars being a better option because of trim quality or battery degradation, so let's wait for them to make electric ones?

The most disappointing thing to me is that conversions aren't and won't be a big thing because they are too difficult and costly. So everyone has to get a new car in order to go electric.
 

Haakon

veni, vidi, volanti
I'm surprised when everyone talks about replacing every ICE with EV like it will solve the world's woes.
You keep repeating that assertion, and we keep repeating that no one is saying that... I think i need to keep some replies in a word doc for you so i can just copy-paste and save time.
 

rangersac

Likes Bikes and Dirt
People are quick to jump on Nissan too for the lack of thermal management in the batteries, again there's a presumtion that every Leaf ever ran out of battery capacity too quickly because they don't have cooling which isn't the case. Plenty of them are still working just fine with a bit less range than they used to have, but still enough for 90% of people's actual transport needs. It's a battery pack, not a magical energy unicorn, they can and do lose capacity. Then they can go on to power buildings.
Because of the short range of the Gen 1 Leaf the degradation was noticeable pretty quickly. Their effective range from new was only around 120-130km in the real world, and in hot climates they were losing 20% of capacity before 40K km were on the clock. Now sure, if you are an early adopter then you take a risk with new tech. What's disappointing is that in the six years between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 Leaf models, they didn't do something about this despite it being an identified issue that resulted in a class action lawsuit in the US and a cut price replacement battery programme worldwide. In their defence their batteries have been extremely reliable, with vastly fewer cell or total pack failures than Tesla.

The most disappointing thing to me is that conversions aren't and won't be a big thing because they are too difficult and costly. So everyone has to get a new car in order to go electric.
I'm completely with you on this one. For the vast majority of two car households in Australia (and there are plenty of them) a second hand Leaf (which is the only real affordable second hand EV option currently) is an ideal second car. Dirt cheap to run, super reliable, comfortable and for their time had pretty much the full fruit salad of safety features. No regrets of mine going down that route.
 

Scotty T

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Because of the short range of the Gen 1 Leaf the degradation was noticeable pretty quickly. Their effective range from new was only around 120-130km in the real world, and in hot climates they were losing 20% of capacity before 40K km were on the clock.

I'm completely with you on this one. For the vast majority of two car households in Australia (and there are plenty of them) a second hand Leaf (which is the only real affordable second hand EV option currently) is an ideal second car. Dirt cheap to run, super reliable, comfortable and for their time had pretty much the full fruit salad of safety features. No regrets of mine going down that route.
Yeah we're gonna have more hot climates into the future too unfortunately. From a quick look around it seems like the Gen 2 packs don't degrade as badly but they also don't charge quickly when it's really hot weather. Maybe there's a gap in the market for an aftermarket cooling system.
 

flamin'trek

Likes Bikes and Dirt
The most disappointing thing to me is that conversions aren't and won't be a big thing because they are too difficult and costly. So everyone has to get a new car in order to go electric.
Of course it’ll be easier to get a new car. That’s the current reason most buy new cars, can’t uograde their current vehicle without a major headache and a hefty wallet. But for enthusiasts it’s not a massive step from putting a modern petrol engine and gearbox into a classic. it’s only getting easier with more players making kits for classics, like VW beetle, Kombi and Porsche. Almost bolt in.
 

rangersac

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Yeah we're gonna have more hot climates into the future too unfortunately. From a quick look around it seems like the Gen 2 packs don't degrade as badly but they also don't charge quickly when it's really hot weather. Maybe there's a gap in the market for an aftermarket cooling system.
Unless you completely deconstruct the pack it's not really a viable option as just an external cooling source (like an A/C blower over the outside of the pack) won't take the heat away quickly enough from cells in the middle to make a difference. It really needs to be designed in from the start.
 

Haakon

veni, vidi, volanti
Unless you completely deconstruct the pack it's not really a viable option as just an external cooling source (like an A/C blower over the outside of the pack) won't take the heat away quickly enough from cells in the middle to make a difference. It really needs to be designed in from the start.
Look at the Sandy Munro teardown videos to see what a proper cooling system looks like... Not retrofittable properly, but maybe something could be done. Dunno, not seen a Leaf pack torn down.
 
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