Electric Vehicles etc

[Haakon]

So PHEV is a scam after all https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54170207

Just very very dependant on user behaviour... If you never plug it in or always do long trips, it’s just a very heavy and inefficient ICE.

If you use it for short trips and always plug it in, it’s better and still gives the option of a longer trip. But you’re still carting around a ICE engine

But either way they’re compromised. A heavy inefficient ICE, and a heavy inefficient EV.

I’m not surprised typical user behaviour is not using them “properly”.... people be stoopid.

 

[rangersac]

And of course emissions data for ICE cars are sooooo reliable and all. Flog the crap out of an ICE and see what they produce

 

[Stredda]

Tesla don't make petrol cars, that's the difference for me. It shits me that they are over complicated. Just make a car, I don't need it to drive itself or come to me from the car park, put all that money into improved quality.

I'm with you there. I'd be happy with something that is practical, has the basics like power window, mirrors, AC, heating, bluetooth, and a rear camera it you wanted to be fancy. Make it look attractive and not some bubble car and I'm in.
Rather have quality and practicality over all the wank any day.

 

[Haakon]

I'm with you there. I'd be happy with something that is practical, has the basics like power window, mirrors, AC, heating, bluetooth, and a rear camera it you wanted to be fancy. Make it look attractive and not some bubble car and I'm in.
Rather have quality and practicality over all the wank any day.

They're available, just not in backward redneck places like Australia... Peugeot e208 for example. e-208

 

[Asininedrivel]

Rimac set to buy Bugatti.

Rimac look like they're quietly gearing up to become the new powerhouse in EVs....

 

[hifiandmtb]

Sweet - EVs for the masses!

 

[Stredda]

They're available, just not in backward redneck places like Australia... Peugeot e208 for example. e-208

Not a bad looking car but I did say quality, and from the conventional Peugeots and Renaults I have seen lately at my local mechanic, they are a poorly engineered pieces of crap. Things like cam shaft gears only held in place by the sheer torque of the bolt on the end, no spline, no tapered shaft, no keyway, just tighten the shit out of it and pray it doesn't ever come loose and destroy the engine. Mechanics hate working on them.

 

[Asininedrivel]

Sweet - EVs for the masses!

Trickle down economics..

 

[Haakon]

Things like cam shaft gears only held in place by the sheer torque of the bolt on the end, no spline, no tapered shaft, no keyway, just tighten the shit out of it and pray it doesn't ever come loose and destroy the engine. Mechanics hate working on them.

This is pretty standard these days. Mazda durarec for example, and i think pretty much everything works this way now. Mechanic just need to know how to use a torque wrench, which i know isn't a given... If you dont tighten it accurately to spec and it lets go, its not the engineering thats at fault!!!!

Renault and Peugeot are very well engineered, the trick is finding a mechanic in australia that knows what theyre doing. Just because its different to a toyota doesn't mean it crap. Just different.

i was going to write up why there are no keyways in modern engine, but this thread has it https://blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/57310-ford-engine-design-question/

 

[slowmick]

how does the timing work if you don't know where the gear profile is in relation to the cam profiles?

 

[Haakon]

how does the timing work if you don't know where the gear profile is in relation to the cam profiles?

Locking tools on the crank and cams... Its a better and more accurate method of timing.

 

[Stredda]

This is pretty standard these days. Mazda durarec for example, and i think pretty much everything works this way now. Mechanic just need to know how to use a torque wrench, which i know isn't a given... If you dont tighten it accurately to spec and it lets go, its not the engineering thats at fault!!!!

Renault and Peugeot are very well engineered, the trick is finding a mechanic in australia that knows what theyre doing. Just because its different to a toyota doesn't mean it crap. Just different.

These things come loose from the factory, it's a cost saving item, plain and simple. A lot of European cars are over complex and while they may work well from new, get a hundred thousand km on them and it starts costing you big time. The Japanese car makers are heading down that path, are no where near as bad at that.
For that camshaft alignment there's a $800 tool that is needed and that cost get passed onto the customer.
No different for electric cars, don't make them over complicated. It is far better for the environment if a vehicle lasts for 500,000km+ than needing to be scrapped (or major components of) at a max of 200,000km. They need to be serviceable and repairable, not disposable.

 

[Haakon]

I have never heard of one coming loose from a factory or from a competently worked on one. Its not a thing. Mazda 3/Focus got sold by the truckload, not much of a reputation for their cams falling off either.

Its not just a cost cutting measure, its just a better system and perfectly fine if you actually know what you're doing. The body donor Megane i got has 240K on it and i pulled the motor down for a look and it was perfect inside despite being abused. Oddly, the cam and crank pulleys had not moved

Timing set tools for the Megane were 60 bucks, the one for the Alfa is 70.

 

[rowdyflat]

Just very very dependant on user behaviour... If you never plug it in or always do long trips, it’s just a very heavy and inefficient ICE.

If you use it for short trips and always plug it in, it’s better and still gives the option of a longer trip.

Thinking of a Mitsubishi Outlander , ugly as fuck but the only plug in hybrid 4WD thats been available for a while.
Mainly short trips.

 

[rangersac]

Thinking of a Mitsubishi Outlander , ugly as fuck but the only plug in hybrid 4WD thats been available for a while.
Mainly short trips.

I have a first generation Outlander PHEV. No complaints here. Don't buy unless the vast majority of your daily drives are 40km or less, and your standard driving technique doesn't involve a heavy right foot.

 

[rowdyflat]

Tick box tick box thats me .
Main problems with pure EV is I dont have a huge Solar system and have a rough driveway and my wife is not a very organised type.
A friend has one , have you been happy with it ?
Cant get to Melbourne yet Covid , have my eye on one 2014/2015 about 65K km .

 

[rangersac]

Same vintage as mine then. Yeah we’ve been happy with it, swallows a two kid family, kit and four bikes on the towball with a roof pod for longer trips just fine. Tows 1.2 tonne ok as well. Rough driveway won’t be an issue unless there are real canyons. Get a socket wired into the off peak circuit or change to time of use tariff and charge overnight and it’s cheap. Drop me a PM if you’ve got more detailed questions. It’s worth downloading an app called PHEV Watchdog onto an Android phone and with an OBD adaptor checking out the battery condition. If the state of health is less than 90% then i’ll be questioning if the battery has been abused

 

[rowdyflat]

Thanks the drive way isnt bad just not suitable for a low slung Nissan Leaf without tyre or suspension upgrade.
Yep would use solar + off peak.

 

[Scotty T]

Tick box tick box thats me .
Main problems with pure EV is I dont have a huge Solar system and have a rough driveway and my wife is not a very organised type.
A friend has one , have you been happy with it ?
Cant get to Melbourne yet Covid , have my eye on one 2014/2015 about 65K km .

My uber greenie mate absolutely loves his.

It is far better for the environment if a vehicle lasts for 500,000km+ than needing to be scrapped (or major components of) at a max of 200,000km. They need to be serviceable and repairable, not disposable.

They don't make em like they used to. My 350,000km BMW E30 engine was pretty close to gone (a fault in the timing chain tensioner meant they only got 350,000 odd kays if looked after before pretty major work to fix) but was almost original everything else except consumables (bearings, radiator etc.), and diff. I even nearly burnt the clutch out once towing another car up a sloped driveway, but it still lasted another 17 odd years with a new slave cylinder at some point. By far the most reliable and solid car I've ever had.

Will be even better with the electric motor, and no clutch to worry about. I will proabably have to use new batteries in the pack, as it would be hard to re-purpose a commercial pack from a wreck, and it's hard to find modular ones used that aren't already beyond EV usage.

 

[Asininedrivel]

No different for electric cars, don't make them over complicated. It is far better for the environment if a vehicle lasts for 500,000km+ than needing to be scrapped (or major components of) at a max of 200,000km. They need to be serviceable and repairable, not disposable.

100% this.

They don't make em like they used to. My 350,000km BMW E30 engine was pretty close to gone (a fault in the timing chain tensioner meant they only got 350,000 odd kays if looked after before pretty major work to fix) but was almost original everything else except consumables (bearings, radiator etc.), and diff. I even nearly burnt the clutch out once towing another car up a sloped driveway, but it still lasted another 17 odd years with a new slave cylinder at some point. By far the most reliable and solid car I've ever had.

E30 4 cylinders were absolute tanks. They used those engines for F1 back in the batshit 1500hp turbo era and waited til the block had done 160,000km before re-using them for F1 - also left them outside for a year so they'd 'weather' appropriately prior to use.