Electric Vehicles etc

Calvin27 said:
Pretty much. A carbon price would address manufacture and operation in one swoop. No more arguing which is better/worse, just pay the tax associated with the emissions.

On a side note, anyone in Vic got an EV - when do the taxes come into play? I always thought Toyota was weird not bringing a plug in to Aus market with our large proportion of home solar. They obviously had wind that this was coming and avoided the EV tax lol.
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Toyota was a key lobbyist in killing off fuel quality standards and co2 regulations for cars in Australia.
 
gippyz said:
On cybertruck, I put a deposit in when Tesla offered it, and mates all said it's the ugliest thing one can ever make, and said i'm mad. Lol heck I care. The damn thing is so meaty, powerful, long lasting, and huge, and i don't give a shit what it looks like.

I actually like how it looks...
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I actually like how it looks too but I just don't see how it'll get made looking like that and pass pedestrian impact laws etc. I think it's more of a classic disruptor move, and if you're being cynical a great way to bolster your share price and investment prospects by going "hey look I just released a prototype of this truck thing and I have 3.7 million $100 deposits buyers for it already."
 
Asininedrivel said:
I actually like how it looks too but I just don't see how it'll get made looking like that and pass pedestrian impact laws etc. I think it's more of a classic disruptor move, and if you're being cynical a great way to bolster your share price and investment prospects by going "hey look I just released a prototype of this truck thing and I have 3.7 million $100 deposits buyers for it already."
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I'll be interested in how the production ready truck looks. You never know with Elon, he's good at putting red herrings out there.
The pedestrian impact law is soon negated by the a big F off bullbar straight after buying any ute :p
 
Haakon said:
Toyota was a key lobbyist in killing off fuel quality standards and co2 regulations for cars in Australia.
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Interesting. On what basis? I would assume it would be based on competitive advantage rather than lack of tech. The only thing I can think of is that it would bring the euro cars operating costs in line with the japs at least from a fuel perspective. Or was this back in the day when we were still producing the camry here - I'd assume in that case Holden and to a lesser extent, ford and mitsu would be in on that game too.
 
Calvin27 said:
Interesting. On what basis? I would assume it would be based on competitive advantage rather than lack of tech. The only thing I can think of is that it would bring the euro cars operating costs in line with the japs at least from a fuel perspective. Or was this back in the day when we were still producing the camry here - I'd assume in that case Holden and to a lesser extent, ford and mitsu would be in on that game too.
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Whoops, sorry, my memory being a bit wonky... This was all about 5 years ago. It was mostly the refineries arguing cost issues against aligning our fuel quality standards with the rest of the world... Toyota was officially supportive but not without caveats - basically bringing in Euro 6 was not possible without decent fuel. They supported a co2 standard, but argued for SUVs being considered as LCV with a different standard.
 
Haakon said:
Whoops, sorry, my memory being a bit wonky... This was all about 5 years ago. It was mostly the refineries arguing cost issues against aligning our fuel quality standards with the rest of the world... Toyota was officially supportive but not without caveats - basically bringing in Euro 6 was not possible without decent fuel. They supported a co2 standard, but argued for SUVs being considered as LCV with a different standard.
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I'm gonna have an interesting chat to the policy guy I know at Toyota lols.
 
hifiandmtb said:
Only if you drive an ICE. If you just build an ICE & an EV & don't use either, the EV is worse.

EVs emit, that's something we all need to acknowledge. Buying EVs is emitting CO2. We need to build only a few!
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So you're saying I should buy a hybrid? ;)
 
Haakon said:
probably their anti EV stance for years
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Probably adversarial to the european diesels. I recall they had a very different trajectory to other makes and now it looks like they had the right idea.

Toyota: ditch diesels (at least for small cars), bank on hybrid transition and skip EVs in favor of hydrogen.
Euros: Diesel powarrrhhhhh
Americans: EV for life, but couldn't get it done themselves, and in true capitalist spirit, decided to throw tonnes of money at a new startup. In fairness though, they have had their fair share of non-starts.
Japanese: We will just let Toyota buy a piece of us and give us free tech.

At the time I recall folks thought hybrids were unnecessarily complicated and unreliable compared to small capacity turbo diesels. No doubt the oil lobby did it's thing in Europe. The japs however seem to be a bit more impervious to this approach as I guess hybrids extend a lifeline to the oil industry for the medium term.
 
Calvin27 said:
Japanese: We will just let Toyota buy a piece of us and give us free tech.
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Honda: Hyrdogen will saaaaave us al....okay, fine, f*** it. EVs it is.

Speaking of Hydrogen, 2021 Toyota Mirai anyone? RWD too...

372888
 
Calvin27 said:
Probably adversarial to the european diesels. I recall they had a very different trajectory to other makes and now it looks like they had the right idea.

Toyota: ditch diesels (at least for small cars), bank on hybrid transition and skip EVs in favor of hydrogen.
Euros: Diesel powarrrhhhhh
Americans: EV for life, but couldn't get it done themselves, and in true capitalist spirit, decided to throw tonnes of money at a new startup. In fairness though, they have had their fair share of non-starts.
Japanese: We will just let Toyota buy a piece of us and give us free tech.

At the time I recall folks thought hybrids were unnecessarily complicated and unreliable compared to small capacity turbo diesels. No doubt the oil lobby did it's thing in Europe. The japs however seem to be a bit more impervious to this approach as I guess hybrids extend a lifeline to the oil industry for the medium term.
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I remember thinking the same thing about the early Prius tech. Turned out to be their most reliable drivetrain ever - leverages all the advantages of EVs basically. All the complexity is in non moving electronics, the mechanical parts are super simple.
 
Asininedrivel said:
Speaking of Hydrogen, 2021 Toyota Mirai anyone? RWD too...
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The thing weighs like 2 tonne! What is so heavy about a hydrogen car? I have no idea about hydrogen tech lol.

Haakon said:
I remember thinking the same thing about the early Prius tech.
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Same I thought it was dumb to do hybrids - might as well go to full EV. But now they are dominating and looks like the gas prices have even pushed the taxis to pick up hybrids which improves the serviceability of these things.
 
silentbutdeadly said:
The new Porsche Taycan EV weighs 2.3 tonne...
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Hydrogen cars are electric cars. But with a medium battery instead of a big one, plus a fuel cell (expensive and heavy) and fuel tanks that mean they’re a packaging disaster.

Back in the days when battery took a long time to charge maybe they had an advantage, but those days are past.
 
Haakon said:
Hydrogen cars are electric cars. But with a medium battery instead of a big one, plus a fuel cell (expensive and heavy) and fuel tanks that mean they’re a packaging disaster.

Back in the days when battery took a long time to charge maybe they had an advantage, but those days are past.
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Which implies that cars designed to look like ICE powered cars whilst being propelled by something else are...stupid. Or inefficient. Or both.
 
silentbutdeadly said:
Which implies that cars designed to look like ICE powered cars whilst being propelled by something else are...stupid. Or inefficient. Or both.
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You'd think Tesla would have challenged this. But then again Model X isn't exactly pretty.

I suspect a lot of it is legacy parts and manufacturing. wheels, brakes, suspension design, seats and all that must have gotten so streamlined design that it's hard to redesign without appearing way inferior.
 
Calvin27 said:
You'd think Tesla would have challenged this. But then again Model X isn't exactly pretty.

I suspect a lot of it is legacy parts and manufacturing. wheels, brakes, suspension design, seats and all that must have gotten so streamlined design that it's hard to redesign without appearing way inferior.
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To be fair, there have been plenty of ICE cars that challenge the “normal” looks. The original Renault espace is a good example of a successful alternative packaging.
 
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