Get the girls with our special weight-loss dieting techniques

[Steve-0]

I took one for awhile, it was just synephrine supplement so it was cheap but I didn't notice anything except more headaches.

I don't think thermogenics are worth it. They may burn some calories but calorie per $ is just ridiculous. Better have just having a strong coffee once a day, pretty much the same effect.

The only reason to take a fatburner pill is for hunger suppression. Even then, its like $80+ a month vs a little more self control.

 

[jonozrx]

Yeah, the same effects can be obtained by simply eating a little less or moving around a little more. As a side bonus, those approaches won't cause heart problems and sleep disturbances like thermogenics can.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

No they don't work -just marketing crap - I asked a professor a few weeks ago who specialises in metabolism, that's pretty much what he said.

Off the top of my head there is a rate limiting enzyme somewhere further down the metabolic pathway which limits any effect they might have.

Clenbuterol does work, but it's illegal and your likely to have a heart attack if unlucky. Had a friend who used it to cut, HR 140 each night while in bed trying to sleep. Personally I would not touch it. He get the race horse variety from a vet who liked to gamble, might have been the problem.

If you have a bit of a pot belly, its all about being diligent with the diet, if it tastes (too) nice don't eat it, a lot cheaper than suppliments which don't work. Getting rid of the belly is 70+% diet and -30% exercise, unless you have 8 hours a day to exercise.

 

[downhillar]

I've been looking at thermogenics tonight (RX6 fat burner to be specific) because my girlfriend wanted to try them. After a bit of googling I decided they aren't a great idea. A lot of people seemed to complain about side effects of reflux etc.

The other option was L-carnitine but I've read mixed reviews on that too - some say it caused bloating and others say they couldn't tell if it was even doing anything.

If there is a safe middle ground on any of these weight loss supplements I'd love to know because my girlfriend gets discouraged really easily and it's hard to convince her that eating healthy and going to the gym will slowly pay off :S

 

[Bryce88]

I took one for awhile, it was just synephrine supplement so it was cheap but I didn't notice anything except more headaches.

I don't think thermogenics are worth it. They may burn some calories but calorie per $ is just ridiculous. Better have just having a strong coffee once a day, pretty much the same effect.

The only reason to take a fatburner pill is for hunger suppression. Even then, its like $80+ a month vs a little more self control.

Thanks Steve-0. I know what you mean about $ per calorie, it is ridiculous. I was a bit pessimistic about thermogenics to begin with, I've googled it and looked on various forums and they have very mixed reviews. I've asked alot of people at my gym and no one has had much to do with them either - mainly because majority of the people at my gym are going for "bulk" hwell: As for a hunger suppression, I generally drink water when I feel the urge to binge eat.

Yeah, the same effects can be obtained by simply eating a little less or moving around a little more. As a side bonus, those approaches won't cause heart problems and sleep disturbances like thermogenics can.

Hey Jono, I eat healthy proportioned meals as it is and get in as much cardio as possible whilst juggling work, study and a family. Thermogenics was just an option I considered. My other concerns which you mentioned was side affects such as sleep disturbances and heart issues.

No they don't work -just marketing crap

If you have a bit of a pot belly, its all about being diligent with the diet, if it tastes (too) nice don't eat it, a lot cheaper than suppliments which don't work. Getting rid of the belly is 70+% diet and -30% exercise, unless you have 8 hours a day to exercise.

Thanks mate, straight to the point haha. Yeah I do my best with dieting, I think I just need to reduce carbs and up the protein a bit more.

 

[Zam]

A little bit off topic - has anyone taken any thermogenics and did you find they work? I have taken various proteins and weight gainers over the last couple years and now weigh in at about 90kgs. I'm pretty happy with the results I've had but now have a bit of a pot belly.

I do cardio most days, go to the gym 5 days a week and I eat healthy - I just need a little extra help with my stomach.

My questions:
Do thermo-genics work
If so what brands have worked for you
How much bodyfat did you lose
Do you take Pre-workout? I've read they give you a bit of a buzz.

Thanks in advance

When you say you eat healthy if you're trying to lose some weight/bodyfat you need to know what calorie intake your consuming each day and what your maintenance level is, then you can make sur eyour calorie deficient so you will be losing weight and get rid of your "pot belly"

Thermogenics sort of work but i am not really a fat and found a solid diet in a calorie deficient state is the best option for the best results, if you want a little something extra trying things like caffine, cayenne tabs or powder, l-carnitine pre workout sessions and see how you go,

 

[Xavo.au]

Better have just having a strong coffee once a day, pretty much the same effect.

What do you mean Steve? How is coffee good for you?
Just genuinely curious cause I like coffee

 

[Steve-0]

What do you mean Steve? How is coffee good for you?
Just genuinely curious cause I like coffee

A thermogenic basically ups your heart rate and BMR to burn more calories. The same thing happens when you take a pre-workout supplement or anything with caffeine in it.

I drink a coffee a day and it really helps me in the mornings when I'm on low calorie diets. As long as you keep hydrated to counter the diuretic effect of coffee you're all good to go.

 

[jonozrx]

Bryce, do you keep track of your calories and macronutrient each day? What does your diet look like?

 

[Mattydv]

A thermogenic basically ups your heart rate and BMR to burn more calories. The same thing happens when you take a pre-workout supplement or anything with caffeine in it.

I drink a coffee a day and it really helps me in the mornings when I'm on low calorie diets. As long as you keep hydrated to counter the diuretic effect of coffee you're all good to go.

And a number of studies have supported the notion that it significantly reduces the chance of developing prostate cancer.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

A thermogenic basically ups your heart rate and BMR to burn more calories. The same thing happens when you take a pre-workout supplement or anything with caffeine in it.

I drink a coffee a day and it really helps me in the mornings when I'm on low calorie diets. As long as you keep hydrated to counter the diuretic effect of coffee you're all good to go.

The only problem with this is if you have it white with 2 sugars, this more than offsets any calorie benefit of caffeine.

Also caffeine in aerobic activity reduces ones perceived exertion, meaning you can go a bit harder for a bit longer - theoretically therefore getting fitter and burning some more energy.

The AIS has some interesting guidelines on caffeine (and carbs, prot. loading... hydration...)

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/supplements/old_pages/supplement_fact_sheets/group_a_supplements/caffeine

 

[Steve-0]

Yeh exactly. That's why I don't even bother with foods/supplements that claim to burn extra calories. It's not worth it really. Need to burn more calories? Go for a ride.

 

[Xavo.au]

sweet thanks for the info, you learn stuff everyday eh!

 

[Chalkie]

Hey knowledgeable people,

Can working out on a relatively empty stomach impact my ability to maintain or build muscle mass?

Now that I'm doing morning workouts I wake up around 6:30, have a banana and a handful of nuts / trail mix and am in the gym hitting the weights just before 7. Previously I would go in the afternoon so could have a decent meal an hour or two before the gym.

First few weeks were a bit tough but now I find it no trouble getting into my workouts at that time and haven't noticed any loss in strength or progress.

I have however gone from around 79kg to 76kg in about 2-3 months, although that could largely be attributed to the fact I'm playing one or sometimes two extra games of indoor soccer a week.

It appears to be mostly fat but I just want to make sure that working out on relatively empty stomach won't negatively impact my muscle mass. Diet is as follows

Pre-workout
Banana
Nuts / Raisins

Postworkout
3 eggs, 2 pieces of toast, avocado

Morning snack
Protein shake with milk

Lunch
200g of lean either lean beef or chicken, pasta or rice, veggies

Afternoon
Apple, sometimes a peanut butter sandwich

Dinner
200g of lean meat, pasta or rice, veggies in some form

Post dinner
Frozen berries
Natural yoghurt

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Overall it looks pretty good to me,

How are your loads going in the gym, if your losing any significant amount of muscle mass you'll be getting noticeably weaker / struggling towards the end of a set, if not, it'll all be adipose - the time course is certainly long enough to suggest adipose. There's nothing wrong with training on an empty stomach as long as you each afterwards, which you are.

Brekky, I'd add some more protein, 3 eggs is only around 18g, you want aim for around 30g at brekky (meat, milk...)

At lunch/dinner do you mean a 200g lean meat + past/rice/side dish? 200g of lean meat is probably well over 30g of protein, our bodies can only metabolise 30 in one sitting, your possibly having to much here (and turning it into fat).

 

[Chalkie]

Overall it looks pretty good to me,

How are your loads going in the gym, if your losing any significant amount of muscle mass you'll be getting noticeably weaker / struggling towards the end of a set, if not, it'll all be adipose - the time course is certainly long enough to suggest adipose. There's nothing wrong with training on an empty stomach as long as you each afterwards, which you are.

Brekky, I'd add some more protein, 3 eggs is only around 18g, you want aim for around 30g at brekky (meat, milk...)

At lunch/dinner do you mean a 200g lean meat + past/rice/side dish? 200g of lean meat is probably well over 30g of protein, our bodies can only metabolise 30 in one sitting, your possibly having to much here (and turning it into fat).

Thanks, that's good to know. Lifts are still slowly progressing and am almost back to my strongest in all lifts (after a month or so off earlier in the year). 135kg deads, 125kg squat, 80kg bench, 55kg military.

Yeah I was doing the numbers last week and I think my lunch and dinner is a bit too meat heavy. I believe its about 40-45g of protein for 200g of chicken breast so should probably tone it back after I read a paper you posted a little while back (re: max protein metabolism)

 

[cha_cha_]

diet aside, is there a reason why your squat is so good relative to your dead?

 

[Chalkie]

Good question and it's always been that way. Despite training them equally by the end of last year, squat was 140kg and dead was only 130kg. I think its a few things - weirdly small hands mean I find it really hard to do hook grip, so I struggle with holding onto the bar during deads (plus I don't like using those wrist rope things). I don't lift with a belt? I also think my arms are slightly disproportionately short, making deads that bit harder. Strangely too my legs are also the only place I can quickly pack on muscle. If someone could actually explain it though, I'd love to know.

 

[jonozrx]

Overall it looks pretty good to me,

How are your loads going in the gym, if your losing any significant amount of muscle mass you'll be getting noticeably weaker / struggling towards the end of a set, if not, it'll all be adipose - the time course is certainly long enough to suggest adipose. There's nothing wrong with training on an empty stomach as long as you each afterwards, which you are.

Brekky, I'd add some more protein, 3 eggs is only around 18g, you want aim for around 30g at brekky (meat, milk...)

At lunch/dinner do you mean a 200g lean meat + past/rice/side dish? 200g of lean meat is probably well over 30g of protein, our bodies can only metabolise 30 in one sitting, your possibly having to much here (and turning it into fat).

The post-workout meal has quite a bit of fat. I've always avoided getting too much fat straight after a workout for a few reasons:

• it slows digestion
• it delays gastric emptying
• it lowers the GI of a meal, blunting insulin response, which has a few disadvantages if you are trying to build or maintain muscle

What are your thoughts MWI?

Just to nitpick another thing - eating over 30g of protein in a single sitting doesn't necessarily mean the excess is converted to fat - it ends up as glucose in the bloodstream, and what happens from there largely depends on whether you're in caloric surplus or deficit (some other stuff impacts in the short term too). Also, my understanding is that even when eating less than 30g of protein at a time around 50 - 60% will end up as glucose?

 

[Mywifesirrational]

The post-workout meal has quite a bit of fat. I've always avoided getting too much fat straight after a workout for a few reasons:

• it slows digestion
• it delays gastric emptying
• it lowers the GI of a meal, blunting insulin response, which has a few disadvantages if you are trying to build or maintain muscle

What are your thoughts MWI?

Just to nitpick another thing - eating over 30g of protein in a single sitting doesn't necessarily mean the excess is converted to fat - it ends up as glucose in the bloodstream, and what happens from there largely depends on whether you're in caloric surplus or deficit (some other stuff impacts in the short term too). Also, my understanding is that even when eating less than 30g of protein at a time around 50 - 60% will end up as glucose?

Truth be told, I didn't even think about the fat at brekky time, but I certainly agree with each of your points. I was transfixed on the carbs from the toast spiking insulin therefore helping with the protein uptake.

From a pure muscle mass point of view, you'd skip the avocado and potentially even the eggs (around 5g fat per egg? I think), but from a general health angle it's pretty good.

From what's been presented 30g is at the top of the bell curve, but the research is a little spotty with only a few labs in the world being able to measure this stuff accurately - I'm presuming that the carbs would increase maximise the % uptake of protein while fat intake would lower the % uptake of protein to the muscle - changing the % converted to glucose in the muscle?? I'll see if I can find an answer from someone at work, I read a few studies weeks ago, but most of it went over my head.