Little Things You Hate

moorey

Boom!
Stupid Q time. Short Ebike races, and races where they allow battery swap....is everyone just running Boost mode all the time? My daughter did 90% of today’s loop on eco setting, but banged boost on for a couple of steep climbs. It’s was literally like riding a moto. She was flying up the hill, almost falling off the back with pedal strokes. How is this regulated in an eBike race? Serous Q, are you/they all just running boost hoping battery will last? Does the better battery win the race? This seems all very silly to me.
 

fatboyonabike

Eats Squid
Stupid Q time. Short Ebike races, and races where they allow battery swap....is everyone just running Boost mode all the time? My daughter did 90% of today’s loop on eco setting, but banged boost on for a couple of steep climbs. It’s was literally like riding a moto. She was flying up the hill, almost falling off the back with pedal strokes. How is this regulated in an eBike race? Serous Q, are you/they all just running boost hoping battery will last? Does the better battery win the race? This seems all very silly to me.
don't really know, just guessing but
most races would be at a distance or duration where battery conservation would have to be managed very closely, and power outputs would be closely scrutinised to ensure all parties are playing on the same page.
there was a good article in a recent issue of Revolution with some possible scenario's on how races would be run.
just taking a punt here too, but your wife and daughter probably weigh 2/5th's of fcuk all, so wouldn't have really put too much strain on either the battery or torque rating of the motor.
 

moorey

Boom!
don't really know, just guessing but
most races would be at a distance or duration where battery conservation would have to be managed very closely, and power outputs would be closely scrutinised to ensure all parties are playing on the same page.
there was a good article in a recent issue of Revolution with some possible scenario's on how races would be run.
just taking a punt here too, but your wife and daughter probably weigh 2/5th's of fcuk all, so wouldn't have really put too much strain on either the battery or torque rating of the motor.
Daughter weighs less.
I know power is capped, but is battery power? At Enduro nationals, Josh Carlson had the fanciest new giant eBike. Were the battery use and life the same as the other schmucks?
I honestly don’t know how these things can be compared. You could argue it’s the same with the quality, weight and spec of regular bikes...but is it? I don’t know.
 

droenn

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Take a few days away from RB and come back to @moorey talking ebikes.. think the virus has additional symptoms....

LTIH are how many people at Stromlo given the circumstances, and clearly not following distancing guidelines. its the Bondi of Canberra at the moment and we're all going to lose it really soon (but probably should anyway - I just selfishly want my loner rides to continue)
 

The Duckmeister

Eats Squid
Daughter weighs less.
I know power is capped, but is battery power? At Enduro nationals, Josh Carlson had the fanciest new giant eBike. Were the battery use and life the same as the other schmucks?
I honestly don’t know how these things can be compared. You could argue it’s the same with the quality, weight and spec of regular bikes...but is it? I don’t know.
I presume you mean battery capacity. Batteries don't have a power rating as such, they have an output voltage, which if my memory of Year 8 electrical science, which was longer ago than I care to think about, is correct is basically the pressure of the electric charge. Different e-bike systems may be designed to run on different voltages, but in the grand scheme of things ois neither here nor there. The drive unit is legally capped at 250 watts maximum power output, which means the only remaining variable is how much charge the battery can hold. A 400 watt-hour battery has enough charge to sustain a 400W power draw form one hour, or a 1W power draw for 400 hours, or anything in between (or beyond) on a directly relative scale. A higher capacity battery doesn't alter the power output, that's governed by the power unit itself, it just allows you to run further on a charge, or be a bit less frugal on the boost. Basically, it's a bigger fuel tank.
 

moorey

Boom!
I presume you mean battery capacity. Batteries don't have a power rating as such, they have an output voltage, which if my memory of Year 8 electrical science, which was longer ago than I care to think about, is correct is basically the pressure of the electric charge. Different e-bike systems may be designed to run on different voltages, but in the grand scheme of things ois neither here nor there. The drive unit is legally capped at 250 watts maximum power output, which means the only remaining variable is how much charge the battery can hold. A 400 watt-hour battery has enough charge to sustain a 400W power draw form one hour, or a 1W power draw for 400 hours, or anything in between (or beyond) on a directly relative scale. A higher capacity battery doesn't alter the power output, that's governed by the power unit itself, it just allows you to run further on a charge, or be a bit less frugal on the boost. Basically, it's a bigger fuel tank.
I don’t know what I mean.

‘tank’ was more the question. A higher capacity battery in a race, surely means you can run more boost time and get an advantage. Ebike racing still seems silly, and fraught with complications and potential inequality to me.
 

bear the bear

Is a real bear
I presume you mean battery capacity. Batteries don't have a power rating as such, they have an output voltage, which if my memory of Year 8 electrical science, which was longer ago than I care to think about, is correct is basically the pressure of the electric charge. Different e-bike systems may be designed to run on different voltages, but in the grand scheme of things ois neither here nor there. The drive unit is legally capped at 250 watts maximum power output, which means the only remaining variable is how much charge the battery can hold. A 400 watt-hour battery has enough charge to sustain a 400W power draw form one hour, or a 1W power draw for 400 hours, or anything in between (or beyond) on a directly relative scale. A higher capacity battery doesn't alter the power output, that's governed by the power unit itself, it just allows you to run further on a charge, or be a bit less frugal on the boost. Basically, it's a bigger fuel tank.
I think this is comparable to arguments about lights, why would you pay more when you can buy an off-brand light from china for a 1/3 of the price.
The other 2/3 pays for.... the controlling tech, quality of the battery, luminaires, etc.
@moorey question appears to be, if you pay more do you end up with a better quality battery, wiring, control software etc or is the tech currently level across all manufacturers
 

The Duckmeister

Eats Squid
I don’t know what I mean.

‘tank’ was more the question. A higher capacity battery in a race, surely means you can run more boost time and get an advantage. Ebike racing still seems silly, and fraught with complications and potential inequality to me.
Basically yeah, but on the flip side, assisted speed is still maxed at 25 km/h - any faster you're doing all on your own!. But yes, greater capacity means either longer run time before needing to change batteries, OR greater use of boost if event duration isn't likely to be too much concern for charge span.
 

SummitFever

Likes Bikes and Dirt
eBike racing will remain a joke while it is impossible to police de-restriction, power output etc.

eBike racing could be less of a joke if all competitors had to use the same "control" battery (ideally batteries handed out by the organisers to the competitors on the starting line). This would mean everyone is racing with the same amount of energy and it wouldn't matter how de-restricted or powerful the motors were. Part of the race-craft would be decided when and how much assist to use.
 

Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
E-bike racing is big in Europe, popular in Italy but pretty much like motor racing. Not hard to hook up a cheat switch or modify the motor windings and low friction bearings etc..
 

moorey

Boom!
eBike racing will remain a joke while it is impossible to police de-restriction, power output etc.

eBike racing could be less of a joke if all competitors had to use the same "control" battery (ideally batteries handed out by the organisers to the competitors on the starting line). This would mean everyone is racing with the same amount of energy and it wouldn't matter how de-restricted or powerful the motors were. Part of the race-craft would be decided when and how much assist to use.
Enduro Nationals allowed a battery change at mid point. :rolleyes:
 
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