Little Things You Hate

[brisneyland]

Can you fill me in on chiropractics? I always thought chiropractors were basically just physios who only worked on your back or something...? Never paid much attention to that.

The better chiros are essentially just that. But a lot of them claim to be able to 'cure' asthma, hayfever, period pains, menopausal symptoms and all kinds of other bullshit. And a lot of them are quacks who convince their patients that vaccination is bad.

Not to mention the fundamental theories that underpin their chosen field are really no more valid than that of homeopathy.

They think that 'vertebral subluxation' - that is to say, a minor misalignment of vertebral structures, affects the nervous system and therefore ALL of the body systems.

In a neuroanatomic or pathophysiologic sense, this is implausible. I don't have time to get into it now, but you can google it if you're interested. I'll try and post some info on it tomorrow.

And from an evidence/efficacy point of view, they're not generally better than a placebo except for short term alleviation of symptoms for lower back pain only. Which is usually self limited anyway.

You might as well get a massage.

And never, ever let a chiro near your neck.

I just think that the wild claim that it's a scam is absolutely ridiculous, when I've had person experience with it and other alternative medicines working on par with and if not better than pharmaceuticals.

Look, I accept that alternative (or 'CAM') medicines have their place, but homeopathy is NOT one of them.

But if you think that your 'personal' experience of homeopathy administered in conjunction with actual chemotherapy somehow legitimises it as a valid therapeutic option, well, if you can't see the logical fallacy there already I'm not sure how I'd be able to convince you of it.

 

[bikesnstuff]

To the above comments that i really cant be bothered to completely read because it is relevant to the OT, shut the fuck up and move on, seriously, go take your arguments somewhere else.

LTYH - When you order a hot chocolate from a take away joint, and its not even hot...

 

[NCR600]

To the above comments that i really cant be bothered to completely read because it is relevant to the OT, shut the fuck up and move on, seriously, go take your arguments somewhere else.

LTYH - When you order a hot chocolate from a take away joint, and its not even hot...

LTIH; Little dogs who yap when the big dogs are a fightin'.

Seriously, if you're not interested in reading the opinions of interesting and intelligent people in the cut and thrust of internet argument, just go away from the thread and come back when it's returned to your intellectual level, which is obviously discussing the temperature of hot beverages.

 

[bikesnstuff]

LTIH; Little dogs who yap when the big dogs are a fightin'.

Seriously, if you're not interested in reading the opinions of interesting and intelligent people in the cut and thrust of internet argument, just go away from the thread and come back when it's returned to your intellectual level, which is obviously discussing the temperature of hot beverages.

The thread is about little things you hate, not a whole argument based on one thing. So um, leave it and take your conversation else where? Certainly with your such high intellectual abilities, your intelligence would be able to figure out that its for people to post LITTLE things, not a whole rant involving several members, buddy.

Little things i hate, people that judge over the internet, and people that just think they're more important and above in society, due to their age being a higher number.

 

[Mattydv]

The thread is about little things you hate, not a whole argument based on one thing. So um, leave it and take your conversation else where? Certainly with your such high intellectual abilities, your intelligence would be able to figure out that its for people to post LITTLE things, not a whole rant involving several members, buddy.

Little things i hate, people that judge over the internet, and people that just think they're more important and above in society, due to their age being a higher number.

The homeopathy argument is a hell of a lot more interesting to read than you constantly whinging about Indica. What do you lose by reading something intelligent for a change?

In summary: go away.

 

[bikesnstuff]

We are all more important than you. The homeopathy argument is a hell of a lot more interesting to read than you constantly whinging about Indica. What do you lose by reading something intelligent for a change?

In summary: go away.

The fact that it is not related to the topic, surely you can go off and do your adult talks somewhere else, and leave it for people to post comments based on the original post on Little Things you Hate.

Haters gunna hate.

 

[Regan of Gong]

Little things i hate, people that judge over the internet, and people that just think they're more important and above in society, due to their age being a higher number.

Go to bed, you've got school tomorrow morning.

To be fair though, I'm pretty sure we could fill another 1000 pages with anecdotal evidence of your mate's mate who got cured by homeopathy, diet and exercise, the holy spirit, positive thinking etc. Unfortunately, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, and for every person who's tried homeopathy and gotten better, I'm pretty sure there would be another ten who haven't.

 

[Bjorn]

Unfortunately, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal,...

LTIH: The bloody pharmacist who wont sell me Anecdotals. They seem to work.

 

[S.]

He received 10 courses of chemotherapy and was getting sicker every day, getting absolutely nowhere. The cancer was spreading faster than chemo could keep up. During his courses of chemotherapy they found that he had cancer in multiple organs. Every time he went back they discovered more. The chemotherapy was NOT working. His lymph-nodes we're ridiculously bad, his entire legs were swollen up to the point he couldn't move them because his circulation was ruined. Only after consuming obscene amounts of G3 juice, having homoeopathic remedies, vitamin C drips and various other alternative medicine techniques did he improve and is now at the point where he has nearly beaten it.

It WAS his homoeopathic practitioner who actually diagnosed him as having mesothelioma rather than bowel cancer as what they first thought.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that it was alternative medicine that bettered his condition.
..................
I just think that the wild claim that it's a scam is absolutely ridiculous, when I've had person experience with it and other alternative medicines working on par with and if not better than pharmaceuticals.

From what you've described of his symptoms so far - which in fact lines up pretty well exactly with what I said about chemotherapy making you extremely sick before it helps you, because dosage is regulated due to the fact that it CAN kill you - you've also said that he got into NUMEROUS "alternative" treatments. Now even assuming that any of those was the actual cause of his improvement (please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation so that you actually understand that coincidental timing does not imply causation), the fact that a homeopathic treatment was ONE OF SEVERAL treatments given to him makes it entirely impossible for you to isolate which do and do not "work". It's like saying that staring at the sky, and drinking Coca Cola whilst on a course of antimicrobial drugs to treat leprosy means that staring at the sky is an effective cure for leprosy. What you claim as "personal experience" realistically doesn't hold water as real world evidence because you haven't actually proven a thing. Please note that I am ONLY referring to homeopathy here - there are plenty of "alternative" medicines that actually do serve some purpose, whether it be what they claim or not - homeopathy is not one of them. It is a bullshit industry based on a complete lack of understanding of everything the scientific world has ever discovered.

http://archsurg.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/133/11/1187
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=1874503
http://www.parliament.uk/business/c...d-technology-committee/inquiries/homeopathy-/
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)67177-2/fulltext

Not one of the clinical trials actually finds any evidence beyond placebo effects.

 

[S.]

The fact that it is not related to the topic, surely you can go off and do your adult talks somewhere else, and leave it for people to post comments based on the original post on Little Things you Hate.

Haters gunna hate.

The "topic"? It's a thread devoted to whingeing.

Little things I love: the fact that bikesnstuff is now on holidays!

 

[Hew]

there are plenty of "alternative" medicines that actually do serve some purpose

I appreciate that, because I believe the same.

I think you're right, though, I can't present a pure example of homoeopathy being the sole cure/fix for something. I simply don't have enough experience on it to argue it.

You win this round! :very_drunk:

 

[Spike-X]

Here's an interesting column about the effectiveness of treating illness (particularly cancer) with actual medical treatments rather than relying on mumbo-jumbo and magic potions:

Spiritual beliefs won't halt cancer's onslaught, but science might

(I actually found this by accident, after reading another column on a completely different topic)

 

[Spike-X]

I appreciate that, because I believe the same.

I think you're right, though, I can't present a pure example of homoeopathy being the sole cure/fix for something. I simply don't have enough experience on it to argue it.

You win this round! :very_drunk:

I wouldn't say that homeopathic remedies aren't good for anything.

I'm sure a few of their magic sugar pills would perk you right up if you're suffering from a touch of low blood sugar.

 

[Bjorn]

12 characters

 

[Arete]

A least snake oil has the decency to have a bit of snake in it.

 

[Binaural]

A least snake oil has the decency to have a bit of snake in it.

*Falls over laughing*

OTT: The son of the head of Italy's homoeopath organisation died last year due to his father's mistaken belief that his treatments were effective. Use this stuff as a placebo if you must, but remember that the placebo effect relies on the belief that medication is generally effective.

http://www.skeptic.com/doubtful-news/child-death-probed-after-italian-parents-rely-on-homeopathy/

 

[Norco Maniac]

A least snake oil has the decency to have a bit of snake in it.

i was under the assumption that "snake oil" was a generic name for fraudulent remedies, no snakes having been used in the manufacture of said "remedies".


personally, if i'm ill, i'll hit the problem from all sides, not just complementary therapies. it's fun, tho, to poke the ant heap and watch everyone get hot under the collar about one particular remedy.

the underlying premise of homeopathy is energetic healing. the theory being that as you dilute the substance, it gets larger in surface area and this more potent. i would suppose similar premises would apply to qiu gong, reiki, applied kinesiology and the hands-on healing you find in some charismatic christian churches.

 

[scblack]

the underlying premise of homeopathy is energetic healing. the theory being that as you dilute the substance, it gets larger in surface area and this more potent..

How about if I apply this theory to drinking alcohol?
:very_drunk:
So, if we buy a bottle of vodka, and add 1ml to each drink I can get MAGGOTED for 700 drinks? Lets say I drink 4 nights a week, and have 5 drinks per night. Thats 20 drinks per week. Thus, for the next 35 weeks - best part of a YEAR - my drinking has been supplied.

Thats the theory, correct?

I have reduced the alcohol content so the surface area of the alcohol is greater, so I get even drunker on these drinks also.

Man, I could live with this theory..............:clap2:




SV, thats not a go at you, but that is simply applying the theory in the manner specified. You may have gathered that I agree with a few of the guys above, and do not support homeopathy.:single_eye:

 

[brisneyland]

I like the way you think. Now, where did I put that beer?

 

[brisneyland]

How about if I apply this theory to drinking alcohol?
:very_drunk:
So, if we buy a bottle of vodka, and add 1ml to each drink I can get MAGGOTED for 700 drinks? Lets say I drink 4 nights a week, and have 5 drinks per night. Thats 20 drinks per week. Thus, for the next 35 weeks - best part of a YEAR - my drinking has been supplied.

Thats the theory, correct?

I have reduced the alcohol content so the surface area of the alcohol is greater, so I get even drunker on these drinks also.

Man, I could live with this theory..............:clap2:




SV, thats not a go at you, but that is simply applying the theory in the manner specified. You may have gathered that I agree with a few of the guys above, and do not support homeopathy.:single_eye:

Imagine if you spilled one drop of vodka in the Pacific! It would be the most potent alcoholic drink mankind had ever devised! Fish everywhere would be vomiting, the ugly ones would get laid and none of them would be able to swim straight!