Little Things You Love

[Flow-Rider]

Here you go, some carbon guilt :heh::
https://www.outsideonline.com/2261721/dirty-secret-hiding-your-high-end-mountain-bike

I was wondering how long it would have been before somebody posted this up. It's more alarming to me hearing that the workers are in such a poor environment but the upside is that Pole will continue to work will alloy and progress with it.

https://www.polebicycles.com/why-arent-we-going-for-carbon-frames/

 

[johnny]

Here you go, some carbon guilt :heh::
https://www.outsideonline.com/2261721/dirty-secret-hiding-your-high-end-mountain-bike

The header artwork is awesome.

 

[scblack]

Here you go, some carbon guilt :heh::
https://www.outsideonline.com/2261721/dirty-secret-hiding-your-high-end-mountain-bike

Lets ask him how energy intensive aluminium is to smelt?

 

[Jim Junkie]

Lets ask him how energy intensive aluminium is to smelt?

Well, a lot less if you recycle it (although I don't think there was any mention of using recycled aluminium for bikes in the article)

 

[droenn]

cheap batteries in cheap lights are also a worry

 

[Jim Junkie]

LTIL: Being of a normal height where I can buy bikes and clothes in large, which is always available. Trying to find a second hand bike for someone firmly in XL territory though, that's a bit more challenging.

 

[MrPlow]

Lets ask him how energy intensive aluminium is to smelt?

SSSh, SCBlack.. Let's not talk about that part of "recycling". (It's like owning a Prius)
Leo also owns Huck norris.. Hardly environmentally friendly making EPS Foam
He also makes his alloy frames in Taiwan, not a big deal.
I have toured more factories in China, Barcelona, Taiwan than I can count. And one thing (just like Australia) is they are all different. And some are bad, some are good. Some take the environment very serious. Some don't look after their staff, some do. Maybe he just went to the wrong factory.
Credit to Leo for making a bold statement.

 

[Flow-Rider]

Lets ask him how energy intensive aluminium is to smelt?

What else can you do with carbon other than look at it or dump it in the ground when you're fished with it. You've still got to use heat with what ever you make out of alumina and if it's already in front of you, it saves a whole lot of energy getting it out of the ground, grinding it up and furnacing it into Ignots. Recycling aluminium requires about 5% of the energy to make the same amount of the initial aluminium.

 

[MrPlow]

What else can you do with carbon other than look at it or dump it in the ground when you're fished with it. You've still got to use heat with what ever you make out of alumina and if it's already in front of you, it saves a whole lot of energy getting it out of the ground, grinding it up and furnacing it into Ignots. Recycling aluminium requires about 5% of the energy to make the same amount of the initial aluminium.

5% of what though?
A Carbon frame can be repaired, Alloy can, but the HAZ will surely crack again.
Aluminium fatigue life is terrible, It's pretty funny really, when alloy frames came into the main stream back in the 80s and 90s, the arguments against it are almost the same as the arguments against carbon now.
Carbon is becoming more and more commonplace in all vehicles, driven by its obvious advantages. Huge $$$ is being sunk into Recycling tech for carbon too.

 

[Flow-Rider]

5% of what though?
A Carbon frame can be repaired, Alloy can, but the HAZ will surely crack again.
Aluminium fatigue life is terrible, It's pretty funny really, when alloy frames came into the main stream back in the 80s and 90s, the arguments against it are almost the same as the arguments against carbon now.
Carbon is becoming more and more commonplace in all vehicles, driven by its obvious advantages. Huge $$$ is being sunk into Recycling tech for carbon too.

I'm not going to go into the debate but last time I got a quote to repair and paint a carbon frame it was almost double what the frame was worth from new.

 

[Dales Cannon]

5% of what though?
A Carbon frame can be repaired, Alloy can, but the HAZ will surely crack again.
Aluminium fatigue life is terrible, It's pretty funny really, when alloy frames came into the main stream back in the 80s and 90s, the arguments against it are almost the same as the arguments against carbon now.
Carbon is becoming more and more commonplace in all vehicles, driven by its obvious advantages. Huge $$$ is being sunk into Recycling tech for carbon too.

Your generalisations about welding aluminium are out of date. Like any material you need to know what the alloy is, what heat treatment it has gone through and what process needs to be followed to weld it. And have a competent operator.

 

[Mica]

This can only go well

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-...ughes-plans-flight-in-homemade-rocket/9183104

 

[rowdyflat]

sorry dont agree Mr Plow . Good for you Leo Kokkonen
Have never bought a carbon frame and cost of repair and environmental effects are the main reasons.
aluminium is the most thoughly recycled material we commonly use and the energy requirement for recycling it is minimal.

 

[scblack]

It’s all lovely that aluminium can be recycled. Does anyone wish to enlighten us how much of current aluminium production is from recycled product?

Aluminium smelters are one of the biggest users of power on the planet. Let’s not kid ourselves, if we are riding an aluminium bike there is a shitload of carbon hanging around from its production.

The 5% number is being chucked around but where does that percentage come from? And regardless, every “recycle” is 5% of a MASSIVE energy use.

 

[Dales Cannon]

Al is a bastard to create from bauxite. Look up the two common processes and see what is used to get to alumina. Very unfriendly process. Recycling uses much less energy and much less nasties. I think the figure is significantly higher than 5% but my data will be old.

 

[hifiandmtb]

I'm not going to go into the debate but last time I got a quote to repair and paint a carbon frame it was almost double what the frame was worth from new.

WTF? How cheap was this frame???

I was quoted $300 for a non-cosmetic repair of this:

View attachment 341545

The things is - carbon *can* be repaired, we are all first-world peeps & can afford the bill.

 

[Flow-Rider]

WTF? How cheap was this frame???

I was quoted $300 for a non-cosmetic repair of this:
The things is - carbon *can* be repaired, we are all first-world peeps & can afford the bill.

Was that with a full paint job as well though ? I was quoted close to a 1000 dollars on an old road bike frame.The bike was about $1400 complete from new.

 

[Flow-Rider]

It’s all lovely that aluminium can be recycled. Does anyone wish to enlighten us how much of current aluminium production is from recycled product?

Aluminium smelters are one of the biggest users of power on the planet. Let’s not kid ourselves, if we are riding an aluminium bike there is a shitload of carbon hanging around from its production.

The 5% number is being chucked around but where does that percentage come from? And regardless, every “recycle” is 5% of a MASSIVE energy use.

It would have been interesting to see what the carbon foot print is for a carbon frame, just try and sell any bike over 10 years old. Nearly impossible to sell unless you sell it really cheap or give it away and parts are hard to get for it. Where do they go from there, into the fire or to the bottom of the tip. Lots of resins used in the building processes, polystyrene, lots of man hours of cutting and pressing, electricity from machines. Grinding or sanding carbon fiber for a human is far from a healthy process.

 

[hifiandmtb]

Was that with a full paint job as well though ? I was quoted close to a 1000 dollars on an old road bike frame.The bike was about $1400 complete from new.

No paint.

But why are you adding the paint costs into a frame repair battle-off?

 

[link1896]

It would have been interesting to see what the carbon foot print is for a carbon frame, just try and sell any bike over 10 years old. Nearly impossible to sell unless you sell it really cheap or give it away and parts are hard to get for it. Where do they go from there, into the fire or to the bottom of the tip. Lots of resins used in the building processes, polystyrene, lots of man hours of cutting and pressing, electricity from machines. Grinding or sanding carbon fiber for a human is far from a healthy process.

Or left in the back of the shed for two decades because it cost an arm and a leg when new and the owner just can't come at disposing of it?