NSW Mt Keira - general track maintanence and changes discussion.

wonky1

Likes Bikes
Maybe you guys could look at what is happening at glenrock in newcastle. I have read the trailbuilding thread and they are working in conjuntion with NPWS and worldtrail (glen jacobs). It is more XC orientated but it might be useful to see what its going to take to get all parties involved and on side.
Goodluck guys!!!!!

Bye Bye Ty's dad!!!!!!
 

harmonix1234

Eats Squid
Maybe you guys could look at what is happening at glenrock in newcastle. I have read the trailbuilding thread and they are working in conjuntion with NPWS and worldtrail (glen jacobs). It is more XC orientated but it might be useful to see what its going to take to get all parties involved and on side.
Goodluck guys!!!!!

Bye Bye Ty's dad!!!!!!
Also, the guys in Orange are getting a nice bunch of legal trails established with a successful partnership with NPWS and from what I have read it's a very successful, fruitful and mutually beneficial relationship.
 

Sam.

Eats Squid
Alright. Everyone has their own reasoned arguments. Sam, Yes, the law may state such and such about that, but some stupid retard like me will get himself will get hurt, but unlike me, will always seek to blame someone.
Lol. A whinging teenager and their 4wd owning football mummy with an iPhone and angry voice wont overrule the law. Parks have their ass covered via the law, they don't need to cover themselves by stopping us riding there. You can't plead that you didn't know about that law either, that's ignorance... ignorance is no defence.
 

zanus

Likes Dirt
Lol. A whinging teenager and their 4wd owning football mummy with an iPhone and angry voice wont overrule the law. Parks have their ass covered via the law, they don't need to cover themselves by stopping us riding there. You can't plead that you didn't know about that law either, that's ignorance... ignorance is no defence.
I guess.
Sam, you shut me up hardcore.
 

tc2233

Likes Dirt
Its really annoying how they do this all of a sudden. Its going to really ruin the Wollongong Mtb scene if they do close this. Sure there is a bit of pollution and pointless lines being cleared out but has anyone seriously injured themselves in the past month? Because there has obviously been a complaint for them to all of a sudden be giving out fines and knocking jumps down.
 

Sam.

Eats Squid
Its really annoying how they do this all of a sudden. Its going to really ruin the Wollongong Mtb scene if they do close this. Sure there is a bit of pollution and pointless lines being cleared out but has anyone seriously injured themselves in the past month? Because there has obviously been a complaint for them to all of a sudden be giving out fines and knocking jumps down.
There's a new boss of national parks as far as I know. Really, we need to deal with this in the smartest way possible. Illiterate letters and angry phone calls won't do anything, we need to put forward our case, and set a presence in the best way we can. Petitions will probably help, as well as letters, but really we should be looking towards a template that we can use, and just get everyone to edit it to suit. This way, its a lot like a petition, with a more of a personal edge than just a signature, with a lot more effort that I think would be a lot better in terms of showing our seriousness than a petition.
 

Dobbo

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Contact Nerf Herder on RB. He is very proactive when it comes to MTB advocacy and has been heavily involved in the Blue Mountains.
He has a number of letter templates, comtacts, etc and he's also a nice guy.
 

harmonix1234

Eats Squid
There's a new boss of national parks as far as I know. Really, we need to deal with this in the smartest way possible. Illiterate letters and angry phone calls won't do anything, we need to put forward our case, and set a presence in the best way we can. Petitions will probably help, as well as letters, but really we should be looking towards a template that we can use, and just get everyone to edit it to suit. This way, its a lot like a petition, with a more of a personal edge than just a signature, with a lot more effort that I think would be a lot better in terms of showing our seriousness than a petition.
Absolutely.

APPROACHING NATIONAL PARKS

A good start is to make sure no one has made contact before you (a sure fire way for you to look disorganised)- check with any local clubs (worth getting their support anyway).

I would recommend making general contact and asking to speak with an appropriate person- make sure you are well versed in what you're asking for (I'd be broad to start with anyway). Ask if you can meet them to discuss- preparing a researched proposal is a good idea before the meeting. It's good to be able to hand them something solid
.
 

Downhill Domination

Captyvate Media
Absolutely.

APPROACHING NATIONAL PARKS

A good start is to make sure no one has made contact before you (a sure fire way for you to look disorganised)- check with any local clubs (worth getting their support anyway).

I would recommend making general contact and asking to speak with an appropriate person- make sure you are well versed in what you're asking for (I'd be broad to start with anyway). Ask if you can meet them to discuss- preparing a researched proposal is a good idea before the meeting. It's good to be able to hand them something solid
.
I've already talked to the regional manager for NPWS, he said that we are tot ake it up with council for a possible opportunity for funding a proper network. Once we do get contact, and asuming it's positive, we get back to Ian at NPWS Wollongong.
 

harmonix1234

Eats Squid
I've already talked to the regional manager for NPWS, he said that we are tot ake it up with council for a possible opportunity for funding a proper network. Once we do get contact, and asuming it's positive, we get back to Ian at NPWS Wollongong.
Cool, so he knows who you are, now it's time to represent.
You will have to form a committee if you want to be taken seriously.

Forming a committee

It's relatively easy really. To incorporate (best way to get recognised) you'll need to hold a minuted AGM annually and elect a minimum of president, VP, secretary and treasurer- you also need to nominate a public officer. In Tasmania this is all arranged through service tasmania- and similar in other states. You need only meet as regularly as you need- or more regularly if stipulated in your constitution- speaking of which, you'll need one of these. Its usually just a proform document where you cut and paste as you wish- an editable template if you will.

Get IMBA Support

get some IMBA support. Contact Nick Bowman and advise him of the current situation, don't sugarcoat it, and see if he will be able to offer any strategic advice. It's his job, and he's good at it. Even without thier support it is still feasible so don't get down if they can't come up with (and don't expect them to come up with) a deal maker. imba.au@bigpond.com

Get Training

At a bear minimum public trail networks really need to be designed by an inured professional- it's a liability nightmare otherwise. Auditing, reviewing, deleting trails is a pretty fine art that requires a lot of experience to get right. Generally speaking though you want a small, organised network to start with. Stacked loops and clover leaf layouts work great- check the IMBA website for more info, or buy there trailbuilding book if you're really keen. It would be wortyh researching if there are any professional walking track designers and builders in the Sydney/Shire/Illawarra area. They have expertise that can be harnessed and used effectively, and they will understand the administrative processes involved in organising insurance.

Providing successful models of current sustainable trails in Australia and OS

If you can provide a proposal to the council that shows the success of current council funded trail networks, it will display hard evidence of the benefits to the greater recreational community. There are documents about (Governments are best) with Australian examples, though it's not easy to find much. I can obtain some research in this area if required, however I would like to wait until I get to the gong in December so I can sit down face to face with some local riders and have a chat about what is, and isn't possible.

Some of the information above was provided to me by request from a trailbuilder that has had a lot of national success and I am currently requesting as much tuition in trail building advocacy so I can help out when I get up there.

If you have any specific ideas just keep throwing them up here because a sustainable trail network is something we all want, and even though they probably don't realise it, so do the non-riding locals. And all the feedback and conversation we can generate the better.
 
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Downhill Domination

Captyvate Media
Ok, so I've been told my an annonymous source that people have been riding the tracks up at Keira.
PLEASE, for the sake of their future, stay off them!
There are plenty of other tracks in the Illawarra, go ride them! We aren't showing much respect to the rangers who are trying to keep us off of the tracks, and who want to get something up and running that is sutainable and has minimal environmental damge, if you just keep riding on them, you set a bad stereotype as if we all, "just don't give a fuck".
 

Dobbo

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Um....aren't all the rest of the tracks in the Illawarra in the same position as Keira....they are not legal.
 

dh1

Likes Dirt
Um....aren't all the rest of the tracks in the Illawarra in the same position as Keira....they are not legal.
true, but the rangers have targeted keira more than the other tracks at the moment.
The rangers want us to have legal tracks and we need them on our side and while they are hitting keira hard we need to respect their authority.

If we want people to stop riding them then maybe we should tape off access to the trails and put up some signs of our attentions to riders that are unaware. It would also show the rangers that we are serious about legal trails and that we do respect what they say which could change their opionion in us for the better.
 

Downhill Domination

Captyvate Media
true, but the rangers have targeted keira more than the other tracks at the moment.
The rangers want us to have legal tracks and we need them on our side and while they are hitting keira hard we need to respect their authority.

If we want people to stop riding them then maybe we should tape off access to the trails and put up some signs of our attentions to riders that are unaware. It would also show the rangers that we are serious about legal trails and that we do respect what they say which could change their opionion in us for the better.
Exactly my thoughts.
 

Red.

Likes Dirt
true, but the rangers have targeted keira more than the other tracks at the moment.
The rangers want us to have legal tracks and we need them on our side and while they are hitting keira hard we need to respect their authority.
Do any of you think "Even if we did have a legal track in wollongong that we would stop riding keira"??? like i mean it would not be like how it is now but lots of people will keep on riding it.
 
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dh1

Likes Dirt
Do any of you think "Even if we did have a legal track in wollongong that we would stop riding keira"??? like i mean it would not be like how it is now but lots of people will keep on riding it.
Correct but if we even want any chance of getting a legal trail then we need to go about things the right way or there will be zero chance at all. In this case, riders keepin a low to no profile at keira is something which fairly important at the moment. Of course no one on these forums can tel people not to ride there so much but we can only hope that riders will make the right decision
 

Downhill Domination

Captyvate Media
Do any of you think "Even if we did have a legal track in wollongong that we would stop riding keira"??? like i mean it would not be like how it is now but lots of people will keep on riding it.
Stay at Possums Red. They are your tracks, do as you wish there.
I, along with numerous others want people off the tracks that we have shaped, mantained, built etc. for years so that we can have a place to ride.
So stay off them, ride elsewhere, and tell everyone else the exact same.
I know you didn't say that YOU would continue to ride them, but I know you well enough to know that you'll do so anyway, and were trying to make to convince us that people would still ride the tracks, for your benefit aswell.
 

Red.

Likes Dirt
Stay at Possums Red. They are your tracks, do as you wish there.
I, along with numerous others want people off the tracks that we have shaped, mantained, built etc. for years so that we can have a place to ride.
So stay off them, ride elsewhere, and tell everyone else the exact same.
So are you saying that others cant ride but you and some others can ride it? And i am staying away from it until it cools down a little.
 

dh1

Likes Dirt
Yeah thats exactly what he is saying, cause he totally owns all the land at keira.

Take from it what you will and lets stop having stuipd little shitty arguements
 
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