New rules for cyclists in NSW - Safe passing distances, but massive fines as well....
- Thread starter c3024446
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climberman
Likes Dirt
How is carrying a licence improving my safety?
stirk
Burner
It's not meant to improve your safety. Where did you get that idea from?
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
It is because I carry my bike lock in a bum bag.While it may be the case for you, I have never ever seen a cop with a cyclist pulled over and I seriously doubt I will ever be pulled up.
Poodle, if you change your gear from trackies and a hoodie with sandstone work boots on riding a 10K downhill bike past coffee shops then I reckon you'll get less attention.ound:
Fwiw - I already thought the fine for running a red light was the same as it is for cars. A few years ago the cops that asked me why I was riding so slowly decided they needed a reason to have pulled me over. They were rather rude, so they got attitude. They said "you ran through 2 red lights. While riding on the footpath." I said I was riding my bike...so wouldn't have ran. Which lights I asked? "way back, about a km" why didnt you pull me over then? Can you tell me which intersection? There was a lot of red lights I stopped at...they threatened to fine me the car sized fine. I suggested if I was on the footpath, as they said, then it must have been jay walking. They couldn't decide if I was on the footpath or not, which red lights, etc...you boys need to get your stories straight. "are you on drugs?" oh I see...so from a complete non-event that didn't need to happen, I end up being harassed. No wonder I gave them some cheek. The IQ requirements for becoming a cop aren't very high, so it was easy to bamboozle them.
Apparently riding slowly means youre on drugs now. I just didn't want to go to work and it was 630am and my coffee issues were jonesing. I ended up against the wall being frisked while the other cop searched my bag. He found my lunch, my building security pass, my bike lock, and my wallet. Anyway eventually they just hopped back in their car and drove away. I packed.up my stuff and went to work angrier than usual. Received a bunch of emails from colleagues "saw you with the cops..." kind of stuff. These people don't need anymore powers over normal citizens going about their business.
climberman
Likes Dirt
What will it help with? Have NSW Police identified false identification claims as a major barrier to apprehending errant cyclists across the state? Is it protecting drivers? Pedestrians? from what? How widespread is this as an issue? If police have an issue with someone's identification they just hold them. It's not 1843 anymore, checking details from the police car isn't a problem. Frankly I think the requirement to carry even a drivers' licence is outdated.
Again, we are THE ONLY JURISTICTION IN THE WORLD currently proposing this. That's how fukn stupid it is.
it is (another) barrier to casual cycling and riding for transport (rather than recreation or training).
Frankly the helmet laws are stupid as well.
climberman
Likes Dirt
And people wonder why a huge swag of the population dislikes the coppers.....
What's the colour of a two-cent piece?
"Leading up to 2:00pm, demonstrators assembled outside Melbourne's Flinders Street Station to protest against the operation."
Sounds like the announcement had the desired effect as it got all the people they were hoping to check in one spot. The bulk of the city would have finished their break and would be back at work..................unlike some.
:frusty:
Look, I still don't see the big dilemma but I'm not arguing some of the points that you guys are throwing forward. Your views on it are worth conversing over so keep it coming.
I will ask this though: Cyclists are very vocal in demanding better treatment and more harsh penalties for vehicle operators who (allegedly) endanger cyclists. If cyclists want to share the road then why on earth would anyone think it isn't reasonable to be treated with the same approach as a powered vehicle road user and be accountable for their actions?
John U
MTB Precision
LOL.
There was fair bit of concern about this though. It was seen as a 'Let's see your papers' move from the government. The concern showed stopped it from happening which was an excellent result.
pharmaboy
Eats Squid
Just btw, it's not a reasonable request and not permitted under the law either.
There are only 2 reasons for a police officer to stop a car, reasonable suspicion if an offence, and for an RBT.
He/she cannot stop you for a random licence check, hence the outrage over the visa thing
I cannot imagine that the police will be empowered to stop for a random ID check - high court would likely throw it out
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pharmaboy
Eats Squid
climberman
Likes Dirt
Expecting a small modicum of safety on the road isn't the same as expecting "The same approach". Different vehicles and drivers get treated with different requriements all the time on our roads.
Based on the 'equality and safety' premise, should we treat car drivers like we treat heavy vehicle drivers - reduced speed limits, heavy licence fees, amended testing, a requirement to go through checking stations, a special breed of vehicle regulators who can weigh your vehicle and go over it with a fine-toothed comb and issue infringments, special permits for driving on cerain routes or in certain combinations, logbooks, rest and sleep requirements (logged and signed), BAL limit of either 0.02 or 0.00.....
I mean how could you object, all these things are safer, and would bring car divers into line with heavy vehicle drivers which would be reasonable and equitable and without that how can car drivers expect HV drivers to take car drivers' safety and right to exist seriously?
EDIT - the items I have listed above, particularly speed, alcohol and fatigue are the three biggest factors in road trauma in Oz. So there is at least a good set of arguments for such a 'change'...... not like 'you must carry ID', which benefits nothing and no-one other than soothing the crunts at the Telegraph in their 'War on the Roads' garbage.
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climberman
Likes Dirt
I guess with the helmet laws I'm putting forward the argument that - yes, I think for a heap of cyclists a heap of the time a helmet is A Very Good Idea. I wouldn't MTB without one, I don't typically ride without one. But when other nations look at the Oz/NZ experience of mandatory hemet use, they see not enough benefit (in reducing head injury/trauma) over the disbenefit (reduced societal benefits form reduced cycling use and 'barrier to entry'), theyhave taken our 'success' and decided not to emulate it becuse it results in les people being healthy and cycling.
I can't see why Jon and Mary riding from their back door down to the cafe for a brunch with mates, along a shared path, need to wear a helmet. It's daft. We've become normalised to it but it's stupid.
no1boardbreaker
Squid
There is a bonus to carrying a licence on your person.....if you are unfortunate enough to have an accident and not be conscious for example, a search of you will reveal very quickly who you are and where you live. This could save your life if in need of urgent medical attention. It will give medical staff your identity and then they can access information such as blood type, allergies, heart conditions etc via your medical records much quicker than if your identity is unknown.
I just carry my previous copy of my licence in my Camelbak....i.e. the one RTA (RMS) cuts the corner off or punches a hole through etc. That way you can leave your real one in your car or wallet.
I just carry my previous copy of my licence in my Camelbak....i.e. the one RTA (RMS) cuts the corner off or punches a hole through etc. That way you can leave your real one in your car or wallet.
akashra
Eats Squid
No, they'll come up with some other 'random' reason to stop you - and then discover you don't have ID when it's the first thing they ask for, as you're now required to carry it so there's no reason for them to not ask for ID. This will become a thing - "random" blitzes on cyclists, where they don't acutually care about them running red lights or not having bells - they're *cough* checking those things primarily and 'oh no, you mean you don't have ID?'
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
Exactly. I have endless stories of my negative interactions with Police officers, where through their belligerence and aggression things have reinforced the negative stereotype that cops are pigs. I have a small number of good ones in contrast. It is disappointing.
By extreme contrast the nsw transit officers used to have an even worse reputation for aggression, outright rudeness, and unnecessary violence. In recent months they have undergone a huge change and are now a pleasant experience. Personable, well mannered, human. I eagerly anticipate a similar undertaking with the police.
Sounds like Dozer wants all cyclists to have rego and a license. That is the end product of such a line of thought. We are already bound by the road rules, same as other road users.
I do enjoy black clothing and a backpack. Both apparent highly suspicious traits. And obviously dangerous too.
Yep, low speed face plants in such a scenario are a dangerous thing. A friends father died that way when I was a kid. Sure it isn't an everyday thing, but I'd rather not die/disabled from an easily prevented head injury.
Most recent (NYE 630pm) "you look like someone with a warrant." really? My reply "I bet you say that to all the boys." officer burned.
steve jobs' pancreas
Eats Squid
I think I'm with Dozer on this one, I don't see a drama in carrying my driver's licence except maybe I'll forget to take it out of my backpack for driving. Maybe I'll make a laminated copy, if that doesn't suffice hopefully the cops would see I'm making an effort and let me orf.
As for the helmet thing (which is not really on topic here), I couldnae give a flying fark if people use compulsory helmet laws as a reason not to ride a pushy. Guaranteed they will find some other excuse not to ride if helmets weren't compulsory, too hot, too cold, too many dogs, chaffing, increased heart rate.
As for the helmet thing (which is not really on topic here), I couldnae give a flying fark if people use compulsory helmet laws as a reason not to ride a pushy. Guaranteed they will find some other excuse not to ride if helmets weren't compulsory, too hot, too cold, too many dogs, chaffing, increased heart rate.
climberman
Likes Dirt
I live in a chilled area with good cycling facilities. HEAPS of people don't wear helmets, 'cause there's no need. They just want to cruise to work or to the shops or a cafe and be relaxed, not "GO FOR A RIDE". Getting these people engaged in and supporting cycling and cycling infrastructure is exactly what 'traditional' cycling needs. A transport from normal people use, nit just 'riders'.
steve jobs' pancreas
Eats Squid
I care not for the hipster
change the laws and let Darwin's theory run its course
you may well be onto somethink here
change the laws and let Darwin's theory run its course
you may well be onto somethink here
pharmaboy
Eats Squid
As in Hipster dudes on bikes without helmets will get more chicks and father more children- is that what you mean?
Coz, it's reasonably obvious that they won't die quicker.