Russia Vs. America; Here we go again kids!

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

Don't disagree with the sentiment, but that IS a slippery slope. Who decides? What if they're wrong? Who polices this? Where is the line?

You know who else just takes what they want and makes up the rules as they go?

It's easy to say and hold these views. The reality is much more complex.

It is a slippery slope but we’re already on a slippery slope and have been ever since Russia first sent troops into Georgia back in 2008.
We can either start bending a few rules to bring proper pressure to those in Putin’s inner circle while simultaneously hoping that the Russian people manage to form a powerful enough protest movement to remove Putin from power OR we can look forward to potential escalation further down the track, further death and destruction and the very real possibility of a shooting match between NATO and Russia.

Putin himself isn’t very complex. He’s a classic bully and a tyrant. He runs his government the same way a Mafia Don runs his family.
The situation the West have let themselves get into in terms of needing Russian energy (most of mainland Europe), financial infiltration of the government (UK) and allowing Russia to fuel political and racial/social division while exerting very real influence on a former head of state (USA), is very complex but we cannot begin to sort that mess out until Putin is out of the picture and employing half-arsed sanctions while wishing on a falling star will never bring that about .

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

Todays latest World War 3 update bizarrely enough comes courtesy of Belle & Sebastian’s singer/songwriter Stuart Murdoch who was out for a peaceful walk along the shores of the Firth of Clyde.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497200387656503302

That there in the video is one of the UK’s four Vanguard class ballistic missile submarines - The UK’s nuclear deterrent.

From where the video was taken it appears to be heading into port at HMNB Clyde rather than out to sea but the timing seems oddly coincidental with what’s happening in Ukraine. There’s supposed to be one at sea at all times so it seems a bit strange to be bringing it in at this time (unless it’s replacement has already put to sea)

 

[Squidfayce]

Eurovision should be fun this year.

Russia has been kicked from eurovision 2022

 

[johnny]

Interesting read: https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/ukraine-through-russias-eyes

 

[johnny]

It's worth noting that abusing the world's financial systems is a well developed science. Each country's attempt at meeting FATF obligations and wolfsberg principles is woefully lagging. The saying that the criminals are always two steps ahead is very accurate. We've been debating since 2012 whether we should include lawyers, realestate agents and accountants into AML reporting obligations. Needless to say, these are the three most abused professions for money laundering in australia.

Case in point:
https://www.occrp.org/en/goldensands/how-to-inherit-a-villa-kremlin-style

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

My biggest surprise so far is that the current UK government with it's shady recent history of receiving large donations from Russia and the whole Russian-influenced Brexit debacle are actually trying to do more to sanction Russia than some of the larger European powers. If NATO members aren't willing to take -what in the grand scheme of things- is a small economic hit, what does that say about their resolve to respond with force if fellow NATO members are attacked at some point in the future.

Why is booting Russia off SWIFT the one key sanction the US and Europe are still holding back on? - ABC News

*Additionally, there seemed to be a few reports late last night of Belgium and Italy lobbying for sanction exemptions for their respective diamond and luxury goods trades which seems particularly offensive seeing as the average Russian worker probably isn't covering themselves in bling right now. However it seems to have been dropped from most major news outlets and is only floating around on b-grade internet news sites now, raising the possibility that it may have been a bit of Russian disinformation.

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

Interesting read: https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/ukraine-through-russias-eyes

Good read there. The pre-invasion apathy and disaffection with the Government by the general population definitely seems to have disappeared and it's not surprising. Reminds me of the USA circa 9/11 when George W Bush had barely scraped over the line at the 2000 election, losing the popular vote only to smash it in 2004

 

[FoxRidersCo]

The expert in illegally invading sovereign countries has spoken...

Pot, Kettle

 

[Squidfayce]

Case in point:
https://www.occrp.org/en/goldensands/how-to-inherit-a-villa-kremlin-style

pretty standard. UAE is sympatehtic to russia too. Perfect example of somewhere to holiday when you cant go back to somewhere like London and still have all the mod cons of any billionaire available to you 24/7

 

[downunderdallas]

pretty standard. UAE is sympatehtic to russia too. Perfect example of somewhere to holiday when you cant go back to somewhere like London and still have all the mod cons of any billionaire available to you 24/7

I reckon if I was trying to dodge a cold winter in Moscow I'd prefer Cuba.

 

[Squidfayce]

I reckon if I was trying to dodge a cold winter in Moscow I'd prefer Cuba.

You could do that too I'm sure, just less lamborghinis

 

[Sky_Collapsed]

all that NATO is doing is building up presence along the eastern flank to protect countries not yet under invasion.

Just more evidence that NATO and the EU aren't really that serious about security, they like to talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

And imma be upfront here, I have a friend in Ukraine I've known for years through online gaming and this is the first time for me I've ever really known someone in danger of displacement during a war.

Obviously i've never watched previous wars gleefully but it's a new experience for it to hit this close i guess.

 

[Squidfayce]

all that NATO is doing is building up presence along the eastern flank to protect countries not yet under invasion.

Just more evidence that NATO and the EU aren't really that serious about security, they like to talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

why would NATO endanger the rest of Europe and other NATO members by going into a non NATO member country to fight a war rather than bolster other NATO members against encroachment? You realise Putins excuse for going full retard is if NATO takes part in what is going on, right?

they are litterally protecting the EU by not fighting.

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

pretty standard. UAE is sympatehtic to russia too. Perfect example of somewhere to holiday when you cant go back to somewhere like London and still have all the mod cons of any billionaire available to you 24/7

That's like comparing the Gold Coast with Monaco. There's no prestige to be had in owning property in Dubai particularly if you've the typical Russian distain for those of a slightly more tanned complexion. That's why your man Shugalov in the article Johnny linked also has a London property that's worth almost twice as much as his much larger Dubai abode.

Mod cons for Russian billionaires tend to include things like football teams, fancy schools and peerages. The UAE is severely lacking in all these things - hence why Arab billionaires also do all their hob-nobbing in Europe.

 

[Flow-Rider]

why would NATO endanger the rest of Europe and other NATO members by going into a non NATO member country to fight a war rather than bolster other NATO members against encroachment? You realise Putins excuse for going full retard is if NATO takes part in what is going on, right?

they are litterally protecting the EU by not fighting.

They'll have to fight if they go into NATO territory.

 

[Squidfayce]

They'll have to fight if they go into NATO territory.

if.

 

[Squidfayce]

That's like comparing the Gold Coast with Monaco. There's no prestige to be had in owning property in Dubai particularly if you've the typical Russian distain for those of a slightly more tanned complexion. That's why your man Shugalov in the article Johnny linked also has a London property that's worth almost twice as much as his much larger Dubai abode.

Mod cons for Russian billionaires tend to include things like football teams, fancy schools and peerages. The UAE is severely lacking in all these things - hence why Arab billionaires also do all their hob-nobbing in Europe.

its funny that you'd think thats the extent of their available properties to go to.

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

its funny that you'd think thats the extent of their available properties to go to.

It’s not about the properties. It’s about the allure of power.

It’s funny that in spite of all your knowledge in finance you’re still thinking like a millionaire where a fancy house on a nice beach would probably satisfy you. They’re billionaires and ones with an obsession with old money, celebrity and ostentatious displays of wealth*.

The Arab Sheiks are the same, despite creating high tech luxury oasis’s in the middle of the desert why do you think they all invest so much money in European property and spend so much time over there, gallivanting around with royalty, sports stars, supermodels, actors and other celebrities?

You threaten access to that world, couple it with an increasingly hostile population at home and you stand a good chance of getting a few to turn on their boss.

*US billionaires seem to be more concerned with sending themselves into orbit but it boils down to the same thing: Bragging rights.

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

What's more I really fail to understand how using what limited avenues we have for attacking those in Putin's inner circle, is somehow a bad idea because it's in the 'too hard' basket and has a debatable probability of success.

As we speak everyday people in the Ukraine are facing off against armoured divisions with fucking rifles and molotov cocktails. They're not shying away from the fight because it's too difficult and almost certainly doomed to fail in the short term. The very least we can do is start revoking visas, engaging the torturous wheels of the legal system and generally making life difficult for those who have the most influence in this whole tragedy.

 

[Asininedrivel]

The expert in illegally invading sovereign countries has spoken...

Pot, Kettle

View attachment 386641

He's 100% correct though.

if.

I don't tend to slide into alarmism, but if Putin is mad enough to do this he's mad enough to do anything. As POSM said earlier, where does it end? Maybe demands for a land link through Poland to Kalingrad or else? Or maybe an errant Russian commander decides to take some pot shots at NATO planes patrolling near Ukraine's western border?

The only positive is that reports are already coming through that the Russians have seriously underestimated Ukrainian resolve. Even if Russia does reportedly have mobile crematoriums following the advance to avoid all those body bags going home, it won't be enough.