Haakon
has an accommodating arse
I dont imagine damping will be an issue to tune, and the linkage driven reasons are made clear in the pinkbike article.
Structure Cycleworks
- Thread starter Haakon
- Start date
Mr Crudley
Glock in your sock
When I put 'laughing mexican guy' into a Youtube search I was entertained for hours.
It keeps on giving.
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
I take it he worked for Trek? I'm pretty sure they were one of the companies claiming American made after a loose application of the term under the NAFTA allowed them to manufacture in Mexico and package in the USA.
That guys laugh is fucking awesome. The video is sensational.
The Dude
Wasn't asking to be banned
Actually, metric shocks are another abomination of the marketing department
If you need extra volume and space to improve performance, use a 3x9.5" shock on your trail bike with a 2:1 or 2.5:1 leverage ratio
Theres a reason shocks of that smaller sizes are widely used otherwise why would someone specify a 190x51 shock as it is? Not all bikes get the luxury of the weight of a DH sized shock and not all of them need it. Increasing oil volume by the margins they have is great for the shock performance, but more importantly it restricts the options that frame builders have access to to those that are more appropriate in oil volume to stroke ratio. If it was a pure marketing push then we would have seen a much faster adoption of the standards and a much faster reduction in availability of old sized shocks, which is also why we are only seeing these shocks in trail bike lengths and not being pushed over into DH bike shock sizes as well.
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pink poodle
気が狂っている男
You need to watch the video. It is all explained in there.
Knuckles
Lives under a bridge
Mr Crudley
Glock in your sock
Hey, you always get to be Frank first.
shake_rattle_and_ roll
Pumpin'
Kill it with fire.
Art Vanderlay
Hourly daily
Really enjoying this thread 
opcorn:
opcorn:
silentbutdeadly
has some good things to say
You and him both. And me besidesReally enjoying this thread
The SC bike seems to me like a complex solution to a little problem. It appeals to the geek in me but the drunken fool at the pub in me says it's just another fucking stupid bike.
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
Sometimes you need to trust that fool...like when the beer goggles are working and every girl is hot or you're lining up a long shot on the pool table. Other times...you need to lock him under the stairs.
Structure-Ryan
Likes Bikes
Hi from Structure Cycleworks and thanks for taking an interest in our upcoming SCW 1!
It's weird. We know. But it's not different for novelty value. Linkages allow us to do things that simply can't be done with a fork that's constrained to moving in a straight line. We're pretty fond of our bike and here's why we think it may finally be the one to realize the potential of a front linkage:
There are six primary performance benefits to Structure's WTF (Without Telescoping Fork) suspension design, which also highlight some of the things we're doing differently from past designs. For consistency, the following points refer to heave compression (equal front and rear suspension compression), relative to a traditional, telescoping fork (and previous bicycle linkage front suspension, where noted):
Thanks to everyone here for taking an interest in unconventional designs and doubly so to those who keep an open mind!
-Ryan
It's weird. We know. But it's not different for novelty value. Linkages allow us to do things that simply can't be done with a fork that's constrained to moving in a straight line. We're pretty fond of our bike and here's why we think it may finally be the one to realize the potential of a front linkage:
There are six primary performance benefits to Structure's WTF (Without Telescoping Fork
) suspension design, which also highlight some of the things we're doing differently from past designs. For consistency, the following points refer to heave compression (equal front and rear suspension compression), relative to a traditional, telescoping fork (and previous bicycle linkage front suspension, where noted):- A combination of two properties that we call "Stability on Demand":
- The head angle becomes slacker as the suspension compresses, maximizing handling agility in less demanding situations, such as riding uphill, and increasing stability in demanding situations. No other production bicycle suspension has done this (certainly not to any significant extent).
- The trail increases as the suspension compresses, again maximizing handling agility in less demanding situations, such as riding uphill, and increasing stability in demanding situations.
- Brake dive is reduced, minimizing load transfer, improving chassis stability, and retaining positive suspension travel when braking. The balance between anti-dive and compliance has taken a large portion of our R&D time and we offer four settings to allow riders to dial it in to their liking.
- The motion ratio and motion ratio curves of the front and rear suspension are matched for optimal suspension balance and increased predictability of the chassis for the rider. No other suspension system has done this.
- Optimized pivots:
- Linkage elements rotate on ball bearings, rather than sliding bushings, which reduces friction in the system and improves suspension compliance, particularly on small impacts.
- The WTF design does not use spherical bearings in the structural elements of the suspension, only in the steering links. Spherical bearings have been a weak point of some previous front linkage designs.
- The linkage elements are integrated into the chassis, rather than being a stand-alone component that mounts to the head tube in the traditional manner. This allows the linkage arms to be longer, reduces the length of highly stressed chassis elements, and distributes loads more evenly throughout the chassis.
- The linkage control arms, when taken together, are the longest ever used in a production bike application. Longer arms permit more consistent chassis dynamics throughout the range of suspension travel by reducing the change in instant centre location and motion ratio.
- SSK (Size-Specific Kinematics): Each chassis size features a unique location of each pivot to ensure the suspension dynamics remain consistent for all rider and chassis sizes.
- Gravity Sizing: Customizable seat tube lengths to allow riders of various heights to choose a chassis size based on desired handling characteristics, rather than rider leg length.
- Wide Range Geometry: Bikes without variable seat tube length are forced to offer an excessive number of frame sizes with little difference between each size. By separating seat tube length from chassis length, Structure can offer meaningful differences in handling properties between each size and span a range of rider agility vs. stability preferences.
- The modular nature of the front-end components (steering links, upper crown, lower headstock) facilitate custom parts for geometry and handing modifications if demand arises.
Thanks to everyone here for taking an interest in unconventional designs and doubly so to those who keep an open mind!
-Ryan
Structure-Ryan
Likes Bikes
Everything has been done before, but not everything has been done right! There are a lot more variables in a linkage design than in a telescoping design, but we wouldn't write off every new telescoping bike as having been done before.
Some past designs have chosen to maximize compliance by aligning the axle path with an assumed bump force vector in a "J-hook" axle path; this does make for a super plush ride, but it also causes the front wheel to tuck under even worse than with a telescoping fork. The use of bearings, rather than sliding bushings, already makes such a huge difference that the J-hook design creates a far bigger problem than it solves.
At least one past design went for 100% anti-dive, which produced a sharply forward axle path; it certainly did resist dive, but the compliance was ... well, there's a reason it's not still on the market.
Unsurprisingly, the ideal balance is somewhere between these extremes. The adjustment range on our linkage spans a wide spectrum of compliance, always maintains a healthy amount of braking anti-dive, and always enhances stability as the suspension is compressed. We feel this is the way suspension should be, but it's something you simply can't do with a fork that's constrained to moving in a straight line.
Structure-Ryan
Likes Bikes
If people can still be creating better grips, then surely there must be room to improve on something as complex as a system that unifies suspension and chassis dynamics!
If we didn't think our design was a huge improvement over telescoping forks, we would've abandoned the project years ago. Telescoping forks are about as good as they're going to get - just look at forks from the '90s to see how far we've come; if we want to do more than improve stiffness a percent or two and shave a couple grams, linkage forks are the only option.
Most of us wouldn't ride a frame with simplistic single-pivot rear suspension, let alone a frame with a sticky, linear sliding mechanism. We feel front suspension deserves a better system, too.
Structure-Ryan
Likes Bikes
It is.I reckon they would have been told to ride it up the service road on Whistler mountain, the lift guys would not have let that thing on.
I'm keen to know how it would handle though, an active shock instead of suspension forks on the front could be bloody amazing.
Structure-Ryan
Likes Bikes
Linkage designs give control over so many variables:
- Head angle
- Trail
- Axle path
- Brake dive
- Pivot type
- Steering ratio
- Bump steer
- Attachment / chassis integration
- Shock motion ratio
- Shock choice
The difference from one linkage design to another are so much greater than from one fork to another. If you'd like to ask, I'm happy to help you understand
Structure-Ryan
Likes Bikes
The benefits of a linkage design are more apparent on the front than the rear. A single-pivot rear may be primitive, but it still moves on ball bearings and gives control over the motion ratio. Can't same the same for telescoping forks.
Just as a well-designed rear linkage with large collet axles and burly bearings won't creak, neither will a front linkage. Structure's lifetime frame warranty includes the bearings.