Terrorism: Paris, Syria, Turkey, Belgium, Florida......

g-fish

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Does anyone actually have a solution?
Mountain bikes.

In all honesty, I'd love to get a fleet of MTBs and take young men (Muslim or not) that are a bit lost on the fringe of society MTBing. I reckon it brings people together and its hella fun.. It's not going to solve the worlds problems, but it might help a couple.

And then we can dance in a field of rainbows.
 

Knuckles

Lives under a bridge
Some of you guys are shining examples of why we are rooted here.
Yeah nah. I'm thinking it's actually the redneck tripe you seem to be regurgitating from social media that indicates our rootedness

Thank fuck there wren't as many fine patriots and nationalists like you guys in WW1 and WW2.
Because nationalism never, ever results in violence against innocent victims. Have you ever had a conversation with a veteran? I know my grandfather was proud that he did his duty and enlisted during the second WWE, but I also know that he regrets it as the worst decision he ever made.



The western world is going to lose to Islam, is going to be Islamised and you guys are quislings to it.
Admittedly I haven't read the entire thread, but am yet to see any posts indicating collaboration with terrorists, Muslim or otherwise.

Its this shit, "the western world is going to be islamised" that we're actually disagreeing with.

TI hope your kids enjoy the sort of nation you want to leave for them. Especially the girls.
Because we have such a fantastic track record with the treatment of women so far...
 

pharmaboy

Eats Squid
civil war of ideas between Muslim modernisers and those adhering to an outmoded theology of Islamic dominance.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/a-battle-between-muslim-modernisers-and-the-medieval-murderers-20151117-gl0xnk.html#ixzz3rrqtCjj0
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook


What fucking civil war?

What a load of appeasist shit.
"Civil war of ideas" is somewhat different to "civil war."

While he probably is right, it doesn't follow that the answer is pacifism, just that the theology is what needs to change. However, it's not the Wests job to get involved with the internal religious argument between limited rationality and complete lunacy and hate.
 

Knuckles

Lives under a bridge
as it would to anyone capable of reasonable thought. Obviously not the whole picture, but its such a convoluted situation, I doubt the whole picture is achieveable.

What fucking civil war?

What a load of appeasist shit.
Dude, you missus needs to restrict you access to Donald Trump's twitter feed.

in the first eight months of 2014, at least 9,347 civilians had been killed and at least 17,386 wounded. While all these deaths are not attributable to ISIS alone, ISIS is identified as the primary actor.

http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/IQ/UNAMI_OHCHR_POC_Report_FINAL_6July_10September2014.pdf

-On September 5, ISIS executed three Sunni women in Mosul. What was their “crime”? They refused to provide medical care to ISIS fighters.
- On September 9, ISIS executed a Sunni Imam in western Mosul for refusing to swear loyalty to ISIS.
- On August 2, a man from the Salah ad Din province was abducted and beheaded for refusing to swear allegiance to ISIS.
-On August 19, a female Muslim doctor south of Mosul was killed for organizing a protest to object to ISIS’ mandate that female doctors cover their faces with religious veils when treating patients
-On August 31, 19 Sunni Muslim men were executed in Saadiya for refusing to swear allegiance to ISIS.
-On July 22, a Sunni Imam in Eastern Baquba was killed for simply denouncing ISIS.
-On September 9, ISIS executed two Muslim women by shooting them in the back of the head. Their exact “crime” was not known.

And the list goes on from ISIS slaughtering 1,500 Iraqi soldiers in June to blowing up numerous Sunni mosques because apparently the leaders of those mosques refused to swear loyalty to ISIS.

Here’s the thing: The leaders of ISIS are very aware that the killing of fellow Muslims—especially Sunnis- could hurt their cause in attracting support from the Sunni Muslim world. In fact, ISIS is so concerned about the possible backlash that the group’s leaders addressed this subject in the latest issue of its online magazine. http://sitemultimedia.org/docs/SITE_IS_HMC_Dabiq3.pdf

the common thread in ISIS’ killings of Muslims has nothing to do with Islam. It has to do with absolute power. It doesn’t matter if you are a Sunni cleric or a Christian woman, your choice is to submit to ISIS or die.


And that last point, my one eyed, partisan friend, is the crux of the conversation we've been participating in for the last day or so...
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
We'll get a bigger attack here.

Just a matter of time.

Those of you who are pro-Islam can post on how great a culture it is when maybe your family or friends are caught up in it.

Maybe you can even vote for the new Australian Muslim Party.

Not being anti-Islam does not make you pro-Islam. I've think you've spent too much time at the George W. "If you're not with us then you're against us" Bush school of strategic thinking.


Some of you guys are shining examples of why we are rooted here.

Thank fuck there wren't as many fine patriots and nationalists like you guys in WW1 and WW2.

The western world is going to lose to Islam, is going to be Islamised and you guys are quislings to it.

I hope your kids enjoy the sort of nation you want to leave for them. Especially the girls.

:pop2:
Yeah, ease up dude. There are quite a few of us here, like myself, that have served our countries, seen combat and there are others on this site that continue to work in this field. Being angry doesn't make you a patriot, many of us have put our money where our mouth is and don't need to be an internet hard man like you to prove our commitment to our nation.

Secondly, you are supporting extremist Islam. You are in league with ISIS, you are a threat to Australia and the Western world because you can't see past your nose well enough to read the play. Shit man, ISIS has even published in English that their goal is to destroy moderate Islamic communities in the Western world (they call it "Grey Islam") by sowing seeds of disunity and fear in Western society and separating Muslims from the West. They make short sighted and easily led fools do their work for them. Yes, we will likely experience terrorism in Australia again but it won't be because we haven't removed Islam from our societies. It will be because it's impossible to stop every malicious actor who wants to hurt you. What we do not need to suffer is a small tactical victory like some people dying turning in to a whole strategic victory for the extremists by letting our cohesive society tear itself apart. You may also want to pay attention to the fact that one of the greatest feeds of information of radicalism in the Islamic society is the Islamic society itself. Normal Muslims are threatened by religious extremism just as much as the rest of Western society and there is strong cooperation between them and law enforcement in identifying radicalising youth early in the piece. Will they stop all of them? No. Does that mean all is lost and we have to turn to the most extreme measures? No. That is a loss for us if we do. We manage the risk, we build resilience and not allow tactical level victories guide our policies. We don't let ourselves get played and we don't play to their song sheet.

Things aren't as simple as you want them to be. I know its comforting to see things in black and white terms and then allow yourself to get angry and talk tough. But the world is far more complex and you can't be lazy when looking at it or some one smarter than you will play you for the fool. You are the cats paw - look it up.
 

golden path

Banned
You've maybe missed the bit where I indicated that Islam itself in its current form is the problem. Not just the extremists.

Then again, the military doesn't generally attract the best and brightest....so have some disrespect right back at ya. :)
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
You've maybe missed the bit where I indicated that Islam itself in its current form is the problem. Not just the extremists.
Nope, that's exactly the point I was refuting, you need to read more closely.

Then again, the military doesn't generally attract the best and brightest....so have some disrespect right back at ya. :)
Yes, all those officers out there with advanced degrees, access to information you likely don't have, years of experience in combat, training, diplomacy, strategy, etc. etc. Ha, what would they know, eh?


Yeah, sorry bloke but you're just another blow hard with noting constructive to say and I'm a fool for even engaging.

Cheers.
 

Freediver

Likes Bikes and Dirt
And WHAT are so called moderate Muslims doing about it?

Their grand Mufti here comes out with victim blaming rubbish.
You do know that the feet on the ground fighting Daesh or ISIS as they liked to be called are Muslim don't you. A lot of them are fleeing which is why we have a refugee problem and some of them are just getting blown up or shot.
 

golden path

Banned
Yes, all those officers out there with advanced degrees, access to information you likely don't have, years of experience in combat, training, diplomacy, strategy, etc. etc. Ha, what would they know, eh?
And I'm SURE they're ALL on team Islam right alongside you blokes, yes I'm sure they are.
 

Knuckles

Lives under a bridge
FFS, t's like masturbating with a cheese grater.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/02/why-dont-more-moderate-muslims-denounce-extremism/

http://media.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national-news/pyne-stop-asking-muslims-to-condemn-attacks-7015772.html

You do realise the Grand Muppet is only one person, a bureaucrat, elected by comity. Does your local shire speak for you every time they release some ridiculous statement?
Besides, what's the point, when the Prime Minister [Tony Abott] implies you're lying anyway:

"I've often heard Western leaders describe Islam as a 'religion of peace'. I wish more Muslim leaders would say that more often, and mean it."

The former ASIO chief David Irvine, valedictory speech to the National Press Club last year: "We should also recognise that the strongest defence against violent extremism lies within the Australian Muslim community itself

"I know from my own experience that the problem in Australia would be far greater without their efforts. We should thank them and continue to work with them."


former deputy chief of counter-terrorism for the CIA, Paul Pillar points out that the second great cost that terrorism inflicts is "the social effect" of "ostracising fellow citizens of particular ethnic backgrounds that are associated with terrorism, or doing any of a number of other dysfunctional things that less fearful citizens would not do".

I think it was the great Greek philosipher, Hansie Cronje, who said "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself."
 

g-fish

Likes Bikes and Dirt
^ This highlights the big problem in the debate, I don't think we'll see people changing their minds. The right has to become less bigoted/enraged, and the left has to quit tip toeing around political correctness/become a bit more realistic. The discussion polarises and stalls because both sides end up screaming at each other and not actually fixing any core problems.

It's not like gay marriage where most people have just come to realise that it doesn't really matter/effect them and they just let it slide. Unless you're a bible hugging nutter, no one has had to make a concession for gay marriage. Concessions will likely have to be made on both sides of the debate if we're to get anywhere on this issue.
 

DeBloot

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Yeah, sorry bloke but you're just another blow hard with noting constructive to say and I'm a fool for even engaging.

Cheers.
It's hard not to fall into the troll trap
it takes a few well reasoned arguments refuted with nonsensical rubbish to get the picture
 
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