Trump..... (The Sophistry Thread)

[Plankosaurus]

This doesn't seem to be an outwardly biased view on what's happening legally. The jist of it is that a lot of lawsuits have been thrown out already, and the ones with legs are unlikely to have enough bearing (if any) to change any outcomes.

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[Oddjob]

That's Diego Rivera you nonce.

How do you objectively know? Did Frida tell you? I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hold on, now I'm beginning to sound like a Trump cabinet member. How post-modern.

 

[link1896]

NSFW

 

[leitch]

Votes still being counted, media projects winners and doesn't declare them. Race is still undeclared

The race is not undeclared. It’s clear Biden has won. There was a ~550 vote margin in Florida in 2000 when SCOTUS intervened to stop counting.

Trump is trailing by TENS OF THOUSANDS of votes in four states. No recount is going to amount to swings of such a level that could see him win.

And no matter what he wants people to believe, no court is going to decide to throw out a bunch of legitimate postal ballots and actively disenfranchise huge numbers of the population after the fact.

Pretending otherwise is delusional and dangerous - reportedly 75% of republicans now think the election was not free and fair, and Pompeo is essentially shaping up for a coup saying there will be a smooth transition to Trumps second term.

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[Asininedrivel]

Pretending otherwise is delusional and dangerous - reportedly 75% of republicans now think the election was not free and fair, and Pompeo is essentially shaping up for a coup saying there will be a smooth transition to Trumps second term.

I think what's happening is 99% of Republicans are well aware of the result (spoiler alert: Trump didn't win) but are very mindful of the cult of Trumpism, the groundswell of support he clearly has and are very anxious not to hang him out to dry too publicly lest he turn on them all in defeat (which given his personality is very, very likely). So they will continue with this charade of evidence free bullshit until most avenues are exhausted, then mildly capitulate.

There's rumours flying around that they're also quietly fostering this incoherent energy / rage because they need it for the Georgia run offs. A defeated and disillusioned base will simply hand the Democrats the Senate otherwise.

 

[Asininedrivel]

In the strictest sense of the word, it is still not declared until Congress has confirmed the results with steps along the way with the House of Reps, the Senate and the National Archives. Why am I haven't to explain this?

Perhaps you could invest your energy into explaining to Trump supporters how all these "fake" ballots did not hand the Democrats the Senate and gave the Republicans an increased margin in the house. They're clearly struggling to understand this fairly basic premise.

 

[leitch]

In the strictest sense of the word, it is still not declared until Congress has confirmed the results with steps along the way with the House of Reps, the Senate and the National Archives. Why am I haven't to explain this?

You’re not having to “explain” anything - we all know the technicalities of the process, but you are parroting Trump’s own BS as if it means something profound. The reality is the media project results as you say, but they do so from actual reported vote counts. All but two states have “winner takes all” systems for the electoral college votes, so the vote margins indicate that Biden has won. The media then report this. They don’t just make shit up, so the distinction you are trying to draw is completely irrelevant.

I think what's happening is 99% of Republicans are well aware of the result (spoiler alert: Trump didn't win) but are very mindful of the cult of Trumpism, the groundswell of support he clearly has and are very anxious not to hang him out to dry too publicly lest he turn on them all in defeat (which given his personality is very, very likely). So they will continue with this charade of evidence free bullshit until most avenues are exhausted, then mildly capitulate.

Sorry yes I should have clarified 75% of Republican voters. Agree 100% that the rhetoric coming from the administration and elected Republicans is based in optics not belief. The problem is, it satisfies the confirmation biases of their base and becomes an accepted belief in a large proportion of the public, which is dangerous.

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[rowdyflat]

Love the Putin Melania thing .
Power corrupts and the worst people seek it ,its a human failing ,examples everywhere not just USA , China , trump , Catholic church , Amazon, Google
unfortunately Trump was always going to dispute the election , its in his personality to never compromise , Republicans know it.

 

[Asininedrivel]

The problem is, it satisfies the confirmation biases of their base and becomes an accepted belief in a large proportion of the public, which is dangerous.

True, but I think the cracks are already appearing. McConnell was asked in his presser yesterday if he'd seen any evidence of voter fraud and he just smiled guiltily and abruptly ended the press conference.

I'm still confident that Trump's base will simmer down in the next few months before rallying around their next poster child that gives them an excuse for behaving like assholes. But equally I'm not seeing who that could be without being seen as a poor imitation. Except for maybe Don Jnr - but he has neither the confidence or intelligence to carry them either.

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[leitch]

True, but I think the cracks are already appearing. McConnell was asked in his presser yesterday if he'd seen any evidence of voter fraud and he just smiled guiltily and abruptly ended the press conference.

I'm still confident that Trump's base will simmer down in the next few months before rallying around their next poster child that gives them an excuse for behaving like assholes. But equally I'm not seeing who that could be without being seen as a poor imitation. Except for maybe Don Jnr - but he has neither the confidence or intelligence to carry them either.

McConnell is a player, he’s not dumb. He knows he’s still likely to be senate majority leader under Biden once all the dust settles and he can’t hitch his wagon so completely to Trump. Political appointees in the administration (and some others in the legislature like Lindsay Graham et al) are a different matter haha.

I don’t share your optimism for Trump’s base “simmering down”, because it hinges on the assumption that he’ll go away. He won’t. Someone made the point on the ABC the other night that Trump was previously president and the leader of a popular movement. He’ll still be the second of those after January, and he’ll still be the symbolic head of the GOP as a result because they rely on his personal popularity for votes. Even if we all get our wish and he ends up in prison, they’ll just see him as a Mandela figure.

 

[ashes_mtb]

There's rumours flying around that they're also quietly fostering this incoherent energy / rage because they need it for the Georgia run offs. A defeated and disillusioned base will simply hand the Democrats the Senate otherwise.

I think it's clear that we have it all wrong, and rather than the narcissistic megalomaniac we think he is, Trump is actually a selfless genius making himself look like a complete fool to help prevent the Democrats from having complete control.

The Four Seasons thing was part of that plan also.

 

[leitch]

“Why am I haven’t to explain this?”

There was a ~550 vote margin in Florida in 2000 when SCOTUS intervened to stop counting.

Trump is trailing by TENS OF THOUSANDS of votes in four states. No recount is going to amount to swings of such a level that could see him win.

And no matter what he wants people to believe, no court is going to decide to throw out a bunch of legitimate postal ballots and actively disenfranchise huge numbers of the population after the fact.

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[moorey]

Have you tried imagining, for just a second, that the world isn't just or fair?

If only the great man Antonin Scalia was still with us. From memory, he opposed the 2000 recount as it cast unjustified doubt on Bush's legitimacy as president. I wish he was still alive to weigh in on this and say the same about Biden.

 

[moorey]

“Why am I haven’t to explain this?”

Don't feed the troll. He's in his death throes, waiting for his 6 month banning.

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[moorey]

Trolls regain 10HP at the start of each turn and only count as dead if they start the turn on 0HP and fail to regenerate.

Sorry, what? I don't speak sub-reddit.