wkkie
It's Not Easy Being Green
They still suck for that compared to a normal bike.
eBikes - what's the current perspective
- Thread starter Dark Knight
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wkkie
It's Not Easy Being Green
The 180mm ebike (Kenevo) I rode was a massive pig!
It was hard to muscle around single track, either flat or slightly uphill.
The huge weight of it and horrible handling weren't worth the easy ride up fire trails.
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
Those days will come. Remember when people justified dh bikes in that weight range because they were stronger? It will be one of the first innovations to the e-bike I think...a manufacturer will suddenly be ~2kg ahead of the field. Or maybe it will be in e-bike specific suspension, bigger air cans or tighter coils perhaps...weighing in at 90-95kg I've had bikes where I max out the air limit on some shocks before I've got the sag I like. Add an extra 22.5kg to that and...well better add on another 300-800g for coil shock.
bikie
Rock Bottom
No they don't. They're a lot closer than you folk make out to be. How many mates do you have that ride ebikes? None? You're basing your experience on a few runs on a kenevo which actually are pigs compared to other well balanced ebikes.
bikie
Rock Bottom
You're only adding 7kg.. Not 22.5kg. If you lost 10kegs then you'd be as light as your weenie mate on his carbon HT.
safreek
*******
Not if he lost 10kg
Ultra Lord
Hurts. Requires Money. And is nerdy.
I wish I could like that twice @wkkie.
I still won’t buy one though haha. 13kg’s of tranny is what I want to ride. thats a burly build with real tyres, wide bars, big fork. It’s crazy how Well it pedals, and how direct it is. And riding under my own steam gives me a sense of achievement. I don’t mind only getting in three runs down when I have to climb for 4hrs, those three runs make it all worthwhile. I’ve done the shuttle thing, which is cool but not really for me. Not because it’s easy, buts because I appreciate the challenge of a climb.
your just preaching to the wrong crowd mate, we are mtb tragics.
Same same but different. It’s cool you like yours and you spend time in the bush riding it. More people riding is better for the longevity of trail centres, and with nature conservation. More people in the bush = more people who’ll care when it’s taken away. Win-win.
I still won’t buy one though haha. 13kg’s of tranny is what I want to ride. thats a burly build with real tyres, wide bars, big fork. It’s crazy how Well it pedals, and how direct it is. And riding under my own steam gives me a sense of achievement. I don’t mind only getting in three runs down when I have to climb for 4hrs, those three runs make it all worthwhile. I’ve done the shuttle thing, which is cool but not really for me. Not because it’s easy, buts because I appreciate the challenge of a climb.
your just preaching to the wrong crowd mate, we are mtb tragics.
So it seems two segments of the potential market for eMTB.
1. Hardcore MTBr's that focus as much on serious fitness as they do on riding element. They also want light bikes because skill levels will generally be greater and they are easier to move around. These would be weekly riders over several years including some mountains.
2. Casual MTB's that do some MTB from time to time but not all the time. Fitness is smaller part but bigger part of riding around for a decent period of time. Given the lesser fitness in this segment its hard to ride for 4 hours on serious hills if you are in this category using normal MTB. Generally lesser skill levels than (1). There is probably a larger spectrum of casual riders.
I think the Hardcore in segment (1) are generally going to stick to their conventional MTB. Some may add an eMTB to their stable but probably not because it won't achieve the fitness goals.
Segment (2) will obviously be much more likely to try and buy. Personally I fall into this category. I don't get out enough - with kids, work and age and other commitments to ride big hills or mountains for 3 hours and enjoy myself doing it. So for me, now I have a choice to go to Bright and ride with friends for hours across several climbs once or twice a year - that works for me. Also commute to work from time to time.
I can't see eMTB ever being within 5 kgs of an MTB. The gap is narrowing but its hard to overcome physics of needing a decent motor and decent battery.
1. Hardcore MTBr's that focus as much on serious fitness as they do on riding element. They also want light bikes because skill levels will generally be greater and they are easier to move around. These would be weekly riders over several years including some mountains.
2. Casual MTB's that do some MTB from time to time but not all the time. Fitness is smaller part but bigger part of riding around for a decent period of time. Given the lesser fitness in this segment its hard to ride for 4 hours on serious hills if you are in this category using normal MTB. Generally lesser skill levels than (1). There is probably a larger spectrum of casual riders.
I think the Hardcore in segment (1) are generally going to stick to their conventional MTB. Some may add an eMTB to their stable but probably not because it won't achieve the fitness goals.
Segment (2) will obviously be much more likely to try and buy. Personally I fall into this category. I don't get out enough - with kids, work and age and other commitments to ride big hills or mountains for 3 hours and enjoy myself doing it. So for me, now I have a choice to go to Bright and ride with friends for hours across several climbs once or twice a year - that works for me. Also commute to work from time to time.
I can't see eMTB ever being within 5 kgs of an MTB. The gap is narrowing but its hard to overcome physics of needing a decent motor and decent battery.
Maybe take it as a hint that we don't appreciate your aggressive attitude and constant nitpicking trying to start a shitfight and that if you don't just chill a bit we'll ban your account and any you make after that. We don't care what you think about e-bikes, we care about the way you conduct yourself.
If you've got a problem with the way people are here, the way people think about ebikes, the way product reviews are done and the way we manage this website, just go to another website where you will be happier. If you can get along on this website without constantly pushing against the grain we'd be happy with that too.
Up to you.
PS - poodle, appreciate if you'd stop atagonising as well.
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
I think you have me confused with another user with a similar name. That beige bichon guy was shit posting all through this thread...
This made it pretty easy to decide we aren't gonna go for an E Bike section on the site. Hats off to the guys who are into it and put a positive spin on it, riding bikes is fun. This is just another war though; roadies vs mountain bikers, cars vs cyclists, clips vs flats, downhillers having bigger balls and pulling tons of hot birds and being totally awesome vs............actually thats all true. 
Again, if you haven't got a reason to blow up over E Bikes then it may be best to stay curious but not be an obnoxious tool over it. If you haven't ridden one, best to move on to a thread where you can actually drop some cool content and get amongst it.
Again, if you haven't got a reason to blow up over E Bikes then it may be best to stay curious but not be an obnoxious tool over it. If you haven't ridden one, best to move on to a thread where you can actually drop some cool content and get amongst it.
Calvin27
Eats Squid
The battery life varies significantly depending on what part of the load curve you are on. We were riding pretty flat fire trails at about 30kph which for that particular motor was very inefficient (it's geared for climbing). Different drives vary in 'off' mode. Some feel normal just with added mass, others like the TSDZ sap power even when off. The pedals in most cases are not directly attached to the chainring and have to go through a round of gears usually.
I seriously don't think anything that can chuck a wheelie up a decent incline is legal. I've ridden through a few ebikes legal and not. you'd need at least 600w with a small battery pack to do that from my guestimation.
Far out, blinkers much.. Poodle questioned whether his battery was flat.. My point was he still had enough physical & battery energy to pop a wheelie at the top of a climb that leads to the carpark that is a granny gear ball breaker on a mtb (glen track)... Stop looking for something that is not there. They had giant ebikes, that’s it..
I agree that the weight of e-mtbs at the moment is an issue and it does look like it effects the ride. I am interested in the techonology side and wonder if/when it will get to a state that it is a more palatable for the average rider. What weight penalty would be acceptable?
Flow-Rider
Burner
.
It's where the weight is, up high with the battery packs, I know because I've a ridden a specialized Levo. The MTB shocks are just horrible at handling the extra weight and I've owned a lot of motos in the past too. You might get accustomed to the extra weight after a while but you certainly notice it when you get back onto a normal bike.
The new range of bikes are integrating the battery in the frame and keeping weight quite low. Bosch powertube and others have similar in frame solutions. Also looks a little cleaner. But there is no denying the extra 8 to 10 kg takes some getting use to and may not be appropriate for all trails. I've ridden mine around some of the yarra single track up and down. Some bits a pretty tight but I find the 27.5 a bit easier than my 29. You feel the weight but i am getting use to it and changing riding accordingly. If you read about the guys (and watch) that are actually quite skilled at normal MTB's they seem to adjust and make it work. My skill level is not high enough on normal MTB to determine difference in capability between the two. But in terms of momentum on flat or uphill - as heavy as the eMTB is - it moves very easily on any mode (unsurprisingly). They really are a lot of fun. I only happened to buy one because I had some time to kill a month or so ago and test rode a trek powerfly. Same Bosch motor. I wasn't expecting much but was blown away. Opens many opportunities for more casual riders.
Calvin27
Eats Squid
Well then you should have said that instead of saying hey did wheelies up a hill....
Calvin27
Eats Squid
Imo weight is weight. To me it's not the 'up-down' weight but the 'left-right' inertia. I've only ridden single track on eikes twice and both times pretty much conceded I'd prefer a normal bike until my legs don't permit anymore. E-mtb for me is more of a very aggressive gravel grinder that can do some single track if i need to take that short cut. I don't particularly find throwing the bike around turns fun compared to a normal bike. It might just be me though because I am running 20Ah which is quite large battery pack. Halving that might make it a little more tolerable.
Top of the climb is the steepest, i say black you say white, whatever.. ignore on..
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
@birdmanoz what style of riding are you into? I'm not talking what type of vehicle, but you wake up and are busting a nut to spin some wheels...what style is your go to? At the end of the ride when you're sitting back espresso in hand slinging shit on your mates and bragging about the ride, what were you doing on the ride? Because when you guys are disregarding the weight penalty I have to wonder what your style is so I can understand how weight plays into your daily.
For me it is going to have been some sort of gravity - popping jumps, railing berms, and sending drops...all the biggest too, I am the storm front of rampagecrankworksslopestyle...so in those situations extra weight sucks the bags. Not just because I'm too weak to lift it over my head at the end and shout out in triumph either. Trying to manoeuvre a weighty bike through a fast dynamic trail is not fun, I even notice the difference between 2 of my bikes that are only about 1kg apart. As I've mentioned previously these are the type of trails that I am encountering the new breed of e-bikes on.
For me it is going to have been some sort of gravity - popping jumps, railing berms, and sending drops...all the biggest too, I am the storm front of rampagecrankworksslopestyle...so in those situations extra weight sucks the bags. Not just because I'm too weak to lift it over my head at the end and shout out in triumph either. Trying to manoeuvre a weighty bike through a fast dynamic trail is not fun, I even notice the difference between 2 of my bikes that are only about 1kg apart. As I've mentioned previously these are the type of trails that I am encountering the new breed of e-bikes on.
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