scblack
Leucocholic
Not far off I guess. But you could also spend HEAPS less on good quality wheels, and a cheaper groupset. Could bring my cost down $500 further quite easily.
Chinese Carbon 29er
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No Skid Marks
Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
The point of using Carbon is so it can be layed up to create stiffness,strenght, and even flex where needed. There's no point buying a carbon frame with little design input accept for visually copying other designs, and making it beefer where it looks like it should be. This frame will not ride anywhere near as nice or accelerate etc like a quality built frame from a reputable manufacturer. As you can see, I'm not a fan. I think it's bad for the environment to buy crap carbon that won't have a lengthy lifespan. Bad for the industry, and quality manufacturers, and bad for the ecconomy in the long term.
Australia really needs to stop buying Chieese crap products. It works out way more costly in the long run. "They don't make stuff like they used to" because idiots accept poor production quality products by buying it. I've had enough of perishable products that should last.
China may well make some high quality carbon frames, but it would be under the very watchful eye of a name brand. Same as in Taiwan where arguably the best bicycle manufacturing can be done. But they'll still make stuff as crap as they can if not controlled.
Buying shit from China is shooting ourselves in the foot on so many levels.
End rant.
Australia really needs to stop buying Chieese crap products. It works out way more costly in the long run. "They don't make stuff like they used to" because idiots accept poor production quality products by buying it. I've had enough of perishable products that should last.
China may well make some high quality carbon frames, but it would be under the very watchful eye of a name brand. Same as in Taiwan where arguably the best bicycle manufacturing can be done. But they'll still make stuff as crap as they can if not controlled.
Buying shit from China is shooting ourselves in the foot on so many levels.
End rant.
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Ivan
Eats Squid
This thread needs moar pictures!
It's no 29er, but I do like the look of the JBC frames.
http://cgi.ebay.com/2011-JBC-Ligtni...ntain_Bikes&hash=item4152237b1f#ht_2706wt_905
This 29er has nice lines.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-MTB-29er...tain_Bikes&hash=item3a66eb947e#ht_5930wt_1139
It's no 29er, but I do like the look of the JBC frames.
http://cgi.ebay.com/2011-JBC-Ligtni...ntain_Bikes&hash=item4152237b1f#ht_2706wt_905
This 29er has nice lines.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-MTB-29er...tain_Bikes&hash=item3a66eb947e#ht_5930wt_1139
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Larryscustomcycles
Likes Dirt
Funny, I went to the Taipei cycle show earlier this year. At a guess Id say there were 15 different carbon 29er frames at the various manufacturers (not bike brands selling a manufacturers product) stands. Whether they were made in China or Taiwan seemed to be immaterial to how good they looked. Some were finished and detailed as well as any other carbon frame you have ever seen, some looked a lot like someone did some paper mache with black paper. As for which was strongest or best riding you cannot tell by looking at them, but you can tell a lot more from picking them up and holding them in your hands than you can from a pic on the internet.
Some were absolutely spot on, others had misaligned head tubes or BB shells that you could see by eye!
Thats all great, so tell us which is the good one! Yeah, well the trouble is these manufacturers sell their products to others who brand them something and then sell them to you on ebay...once they are all stickered up and all you get is a dodgy low res pic you just cant tell if its the good one or the bad one, or one in between.
Its one of the reasons we are sticking with mostly steel, the singulars and our frames come out of the same factory, as do so many other steel frames with good reps. Its much easier to pick a good weld than it is to pick the best carbon lay up.
It was my intention to look at a carbon frame to import in numbers fairly cheaply but it really is just too bloody hard, even after you have a sample, to ensure that on the inside they all meet your standards. It sort of requires you to go through CE testing just so you have some level of confidence in the structure of the thing.
Im happy to rely on the reputation of a steel manufacturer that has sold millions of frames of various brands over many years, not so happy with a carbon frame made by a factory that produces lots of things in carbon and a few of them bike bits.
So you have not bought one and had an actual experience then? ie you are just talking about what you think they are like - not what they are actually like.
The 'idiots' you speak of, (must be me because I have bought 2) - I have had a raceline, avanti, scott, orbea, and a custom alchemy roadie from when they were a custom maker in Aust. I have raced for over a decade and ridden in 5 24hrs.... blah blah. The point is that I have ridden a few different bikes, I know what I like, This frame feels nice, I like it, it built up perfectly, bottom bracket screwed in almost all the way by hand etc.
I think too many people are so sucked in by branding and marketing that they are not willing to think outside that - I may have been lucky and have the only 2 good frames china ever made but I like them, I don't really want to pay for extra markups to the branding company and then to an importer and then to a shop.
I wonder if some of the negative posts here are from people in the bike selling industry who want us to think chinese = bad so we will buy from them...
Antsonline
Likes Dirt
What more can I say about the cake? Its Lamb curry tonight.
I must confess to you all - I've never made cake in my life. She makes all of them. They are good.
If I did make one, it would be shit. Trust me.
Back on topic - I wonder if it were possible to buy helmets cheap from China / ebay, whether people would buy those?
No? I thought not.
Ivan
Eats Squid
Do you always answer your own questions?
I just checked my Fox Flux helmet. Made in China.
alchemist
Manly Warringah MTB Club
Would you buy a random helmet that looked a bit like a Fox Flux and may or may not have come out of the same factory?
Antsonline
Likes Dirt
Sure - so is my brand name carbon frame. I have no problem at all with Chinese / Taiwanese, even Lebanese production, under the tight QC of a brand name - with a reputation at risk, but on their own - do you think there would be the same tight controls?
(neither do I)
No Skid Marks
Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
I sell bike stuff, But nothing these frames compete with, and I try to sell stuff that's built to last or perform.
I agree with Antsonline. Taiwan, and probably even China now, have the best manufacturing proccesses and technoligy available to the bike industry.Sure - so is my brand name carbon frame. I have no problem at all with Chinese / Taiwanese, even Lebanese production, under the tight QC of a brand name - with a reputation at risk, but on their own - do you think there would be the same tight controls?
(neither do I)
Some stuff made in China, like say a seat post clamp, might actually prove to be better than buying from anywhere else due to the mass production, I don't know.
Matt, will you be buying a Great Wall car also?
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http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/31088533/1/ltbike?h=1f7579
few photos of my build, still waiting on the BB for it
few photos of my build, still waiting on the BB for it
setonz
Likes Dirt
Who is the company, how much for the frame inc postage, that frame in the UD matt carbon looks great.
Cheers in advance
yeah been about 4 weeks now on the BB and about 7 weeks on the homebrew chainrings
LT Bikes were great to deal with, took 1 week for them to make it and 1 week in the mail to get it
so 2 weeks from order to the door is awesome if you ask me
Frame, freight and pay pal fee was $480usd
Big JD
Wheel size expert
come on now
If you have had luck with cheap, mass produced products then good for you all. As Larry stated - it sounds great in theory to import a heap of cheap carbon frames but unless you can offer the assurance of manufacturing QA then you could quite easily end up with a real mess this end. If you are a race whippet then you might get more out of a cheap/no name brand than l might. l will always go with the known entity because l am a massive big bastard mountain of a man (cheap / light and strong - pick two) and after sales service is paramount for me. If l cant talk to the person who builds the frame or who has a vested interest in the longevity of the brand in this country then l wont touch it. Many boutique, mass produced or even mainstream brands in this country are appallingly marketed and backed up - no wonder the internet cops such a flogging. I have owned certain boutique frames, brought through Australian distributors, that couldnt give two shits for my needs post sale. l received better service from the manufacture in the US and Europe than here in OZ . Please let it be known that there are also many super local businesses who are world class and service is exceptional - l know where l will go.
I couldnt give two shits if the market gets flooded with cheap carbon big brand lookalikes - hell might give my eyes a rest from the Giantspecialised new world order domination. For me l will stick with a brand with a reputation for quality, good value for money, that rides well, that fits, is not disposable and has a solid commitment to CS (where it is made is not important). ...... but that is just me.
Oh Skids, when are Kowa making a 29er fork?
JD
Skids is allowed to voice his thoughts/concerns and in doing so does not make him a whinging roadie. Why are all roadies whinny? Skids is the importer/distributor for a number of boutique/niche bike brands that while might not be on your cheap carbon 29er frame radar, he is a pleasure to deal with and works with top quality products (check out his list). I think he can have an opinion on importing / distributing / sourcing products / and service within the industry.
If you have had luck with cheap, mass produced products then good for you all. As Larry stated - it sounds great in theory to import a heap of cheap carbon frames but unless you can offer the assurance of manufacturing QA then you could quite easily end up with a real mess this end. If you are a race whippet then you might get more out of a cheap/no name brand than l might. l will always go with the known entity because l am a massive big bastard mountain of a man (cheap / light and strong - pick two) and after sales service is paramount for me. If l cant talk to the person who builds the frame or who has a vested interest in the longevity of the brand in this country then l wont touch it. Many boutique, mass produced or even mainstream brands in this country are appallingly marketed and backed up - no wonder the internet cops such a flogging. I have owned certain boutique frames, brought through Australian distributors, that couldnt give two shits for my needs post sale. l received better service from the manufacture in the US and Europe than here in OZ . Please let it be known that there are also many super local businesses who are world class and service is exceptional - l know where l will go.
I couldnt give two shits if the market gets flooded with cheap carbon big brand lookalikes - hell might give my eyes a rest from the Giantspecialised new world order domination. For me l will stick with a brand with a reputation for quality, good value for money, that rides well, that fits, is not disposable and has a solid commitment to CS (where it is made is not important). ...... but that is just me.
Oh Skids, when are Kowa making a 29er fork?
JD
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