COVID-19: who’s going full doomsday prep on this?

[Daniel Hale]

Completely agree. If it was decent pay for decent work, they wouldn't be experiencing a shortage of labour. Instead, they have to force backpackers to do a few months work in agriculture because everyone else knows it's not a good deal and exploitation is rife.

yes, but you should see what woolies pay these farmers per kilo for fruit, or milk, or whatever - i knew a big beekeeper, mkt rate was 2.25/kg capilano is sort of a collective monopoly who buy at a shelf price, woolies comes in offers $1 a kilo, take it or leave it. shepp fruit grower selling plums at 30c/kg, store price was 3

 

[leitch]

yes, but you should see what woolies pay these farmers per kilo for fruit, or milk, or whatever

That's capitalism, baby. Big buying power pushes the price down, producer has to reduce costs to remain profitable/solvent, workers get fucked, workers have less disposable income so things have to get cheaper, big buying power pushes the price down, producer has to reduce costs... Shit flows downhill, money floats up.

 

[leitch]

Remember this guy?

Head of Covid commission, still being paid director's fees by gas company

The head of Australia’s Covid-19 commission, Nev Power, is still being paid director’s fees by gas company Strike Energy, the government has confirmed.

The National COVID-19 Commission (NCC), which was set up to guide Australia’s economic recovery, has pushed for additional government support of the gas sector.

In May, it was reported that Power, a former Fortescue Metals chief, had stepped back from his role as deputy chairman at gas company Strike Energy to avoid any perceived conflict in his role as NCC chair.

In June, Power was quizzed by the Covid-19 Senate inquiry about whether he was still receiving director’s fees from Strike Energy.
He said at the time that he wasn’t sure but probably was.

A response to a question on notice published last week confirmed Power is, in fact, still receiving director’s fees from Strike Energy.
The confirmation has prompted criticism from environmental activist group 350.org.

Chief executive Lucy Manne said it further highlighted the problems with the lack of accountability and transparency within the NCC.
“Mr Power is still receiving remuneration from Strike Energy, a gas company with interests in the Perth and Cooper Basins - two of the basins that Scott Morrison named as priority basins he hopes to unlock,” Manne said.

 

[Kerplunk]

That's capitalism, baby. Big buying power pushes the price down, producer has to reduce costs to remain profitable/solvent, workers get fucked, workers have less disposable income so things have to get cheaper, big buying power pushes the price down, producer has to reduce costs... Shit flows downhill, money floats up.

Then once you can’t screw the worker anymore big Australia rolls in complaining about skill shortages and the need to import more “skilled” labour. Which is really a fancy way to import Immigrants/visa holders that will work under the poverty line to keep prices down..

 

[Elbo]

yes, but you should see what woolies pay these farmers per kilo for fruit, or milk, or whatever - i knew a big beekeeper, mkt rate was 2.25/kg capilano is sort of a collective monopoly who buy at a shelf price, woolies comes in offers $1 a kilo, take it or leave it. shepp fruit grower selling plums at 30c/kg, store price was 3

Woolies and Coles are absolute scum, but if you make a deal with the devil, then you have to live with the consequences. A lot of these farmers would probably be better off reducing debt and inputs and diversifying into other crops or methods, but some are in too deep. My grandfather was an orchardist; I'm so sorry to see agriculture being hollowed out the way it is by the big supermarkets.
If you don't support Woolies or Coles, you should make sure your super isn't invested in them.

 

[pink poodle]

Correct me if I am wrong here, but didn't the current Melbourne outbreak erupt once we were already through the initial wave of covid? Something like last school holidays or there about? And was there already a hotel quarantine system in place from the very early days of the pandemic which had been quite successful at containing the problems?

What changed "midway" to bring about the second wave?

Or

How did the system wok so well for however many months before it brake down?

 

[stirk]

What changed "midway" to bring about the second wave?

Sex

 

[Daniel Hale]

What changed "midway" to bring about the second wave?

Or

How did the system wok so well for however many months before it brake down?

it only takes 1 active person, to become infected then go to a large family gathering, certain groups in society have close contact, cheek kisses aside, it you have a large extended family, 1 becomes 4-then 8 16 etc. NZ were lucky there called immediate 3 day lockdown, they were able to halt - melb was business as usual for 3 wks, by then 100’s have it

 

[pink poodle]

I understand that. My point is more that everyone seemed quite happy with the way things worked, until they didn't. That came about from the poor choices of individuals who went on to spread it far and wide. If that hadn't have happened would people still be kicking up a stink about using security guards rather than police or army or robots?

 

[hifiandmtb]

I would have used goats.

 

[Ultra Lord]

I would have used goats.

They’d have all been stolen when people need to bleed shimano brakes.

 

[pink poodle]

I would have used goats.

A determined Billy goat on the entry/exit would have kept people in line quite well.

 

[Kerplunk]

I understand that. My point is more that everyone seemed quite happy with the way things worked, until they didn't. That came about from the poor choices of individuals who went on to spread it far and wide. If that hadn't have happened would people still be kicking up a stink about using security guards rather than police or army or robots?

It appears quarantine was never working properly in Vic but the public was lead to believe everything was fine and dandy.. There was reports from day 1 of untrained security and lack of oversight/operational direction from the dhhs.. The virus was getting out of q through hotel staff, security guards and possibly the returned travellers on their shopping and exercise trips while supposedly locked in their hotel room..
To compound that problem it took weeks and weeks for contract tracers to figure out the cases were coming from hotel q.. So the virus was getting out and no one had any idea until cases started presenting with illness and symptoms. All the while gov is loosening restrictions weekly and people are getting on with it.. The lag in cases and hospitals with virus because it is so mild, means once people start presenting to hospital, the horse has bolted..
While the dead shit security guards contributed to the spread the inquiry so far has found they were never trained appropriately or had adequate oversight.. The bigger issue I have is the utter failure of the dhhs to contract trace properly and their failed oversight of the program.. They could have plugged this leak quickly and the second wave wouldn’t have happened..
What i think this inquiry does show is that blaming Victorian’s for causing this outbreak by doing the wrong thing is utter BS..

 

[Daniel Hale]

And I'll make sure I don't consult any evidence, knowledge or experts. Seems legit?

intelligent argument, as you work in hospitals you would know the only watch to contain serious infectious diseases is a full and severe isolation - for the most severe cases we were not even allowed in to collect blood samples, reason being gloves/masks don’t hold up to research in regards to transmission, see the following articles in regards to influenza, the only well studied virus similar to covid. anyway here is some evidence for you to digest

Facemasks and Hand Hygiene to Prevent Influenza Transmission in Households - which i quote “Sixty (8%) contacts in the 259 households had RT-PCR–confirmed influenza virus infection in the 7 days after intervention. Hand hygiene with or without facemasks seemed to reduce influenza transmission, but the differences compared with the control group were not significant.”

Surgical Mask to Prevent Influenza Transmission in Households: A Cluster Randomized Trial “.We used generalized estimating equations to test the association between the intervention and the proportion of household contacts who developed an influenza-like illness during the 7 days following the inclusion. Influenza-like illness was reported in 24/148 (16.2%) of the contacts in the intervention arm and in 25/158 (15.8%) of the contacts in the control arm and the difference between arms was 0.40% (95%CI: −10% to 11%, P = 1.00). We observed a good adherence to the intervention”

Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: a systematic review from a review “There is some evidence to support the wearing of masks or respirators during illness to protect others, and public health emphasis on mask wearing during illness may help to reduce influenza virus transmission. There are fewer data to support the use of masks or respirators to prevent becoming infected.”

so some evidence if you have illness already to stop infecting others re prevention, strange they didn’t find any data on non infected individuals wearing protective equipment like masks or even respirators to stop themselves being infected - so it appears the government has been ill advised. part of the reason i hypothesise for this is the incorrect use/wearing/washing which is ever present, dr’s, nurses, it doesn’t;t matter who, everyone will catch an infection given exposure to serious infectious illnesses, humans are not perfect when it comes to preventing this, and you need highly specialized equipment, eg exhaust range hoods with special filters to stop workers experimenting on infectious viruses/bacteria from catching the agent themselves

as with nearly’all humans your post is a self centred one; i myself am very self centred but tbh i have been little affected by the lockdown, apart from losing my job - i have been able to keep exercising, get food from the supermkt etc.

if a large hospital has an infectious outbreak, they do not lock down the entire hospital in most circumstances (akin to locking down all melb) instead they lockdown part of a ward/whole area - similar in nursing homes they will move infected individuals to close proximity and prevent movement to areas of the home where infection hasn’t spread- and relocate those not infected to be separated.

prevent some evidence for locking down an entire city ? the evidence out there is very sparse, it was tried hundreds of yrs ago for Yersinia pestis (la pesta) outbreaks, but it still spread to other ports, be it via rats or humans

 

[Daniel Hale]

And I'll make sure I don't consult any evidence, knowledge or experts.

research from one of the more recent outbreaks
Can we contain the COVID-19 outbreak with the same measures as for SARS?
“SARS was eventually contained by means of syndromic surveillance, prompt isolation of patients, strict enforcement of quarantine of all contacts, and in some areas community-level quarantine. By interrupting all human-to-human transmission, SARS was effectively eradicated.”

note the statement strict enforcement of quarantine of ALL contacts, and in SOME areas community-level quarantine, which is necessary to stop all human to human transmission

 

[pink poodle]

The man is a genius! Why bother giving consideration to fair working conditions and pay, when you can just conscript? Slavery has always been a good thing in the past...

Force unemployed to pick crops to get Centrelink JobSeeker: Liberal MP - InDaily

indaily.com.au

 

[ozzybmx]

The man is a genius! Why bother giving consideration to fair working conditions and pay, when you can just conscript? Slavery has always been a good thing in the past...

only stopped short of drug & alcohol testing them too.

 

[Elbo]

The man is a genius! Why bother giving consideration to fair working conditions and pay, when you can just conscript? Slavery has always been a good thing in the past...

Force unemployed to pick crops to get Centrelink JobSeeker: Liberal MP - InDaily

indaily.com.au

Another example of why we aren't living in a free market.

 

[Flow-Rider]

The man is a genius! Why bother giving consideration to fair working conditions and pay, when you can just conscript? Slavery has always been a good thing in the past...

Force unemployed to pick crops to get Centrelink JobSeeker: Liberal MP - InDaily

indaily.com.au

It's just the usually shit, I'll bet they'll end with more compo claims that costs them more money in the long run. Fruit picking is labour-intensive and repetitive movement that wears your body out.

 

[pink poodle]

It's just the usually shit, I'll bet they'll end with more compo claims that costs them more money in the long run. Fruit picking is labour-intensive and repetitive movement that wears your body out.

Well this all gets rather intriguing. Did our dear leader undertake a history lesson regarding his belief that Australia had never had slavery? I think he must have...and is now putting his knowledge to good use. Pacific islanders will be able to travel to Australia via New Zealand to undertake harvest and shearing work. I've been well stumped as to why our government has been so keen to have a bubble with NZ. Aside from the seperated families spin (there's plenty of other nations linked in the same way), all I could really see would be a huge boom for tourism in NZ which would erode the domestic tourism staycation aspect of economic recovery. But it would seem there was a bigger plan all lo g and it wasn't just about sports balls!

Australia-New Zealand travel bubble to partially open within two weeks | Coronavirus | The Guardian

Scott Morrison and Jacinda Ardern have agreed that New Zealanders can travel to New South Wales and the Northern Territory from 16 October

amp.theguardian.com