Electric Vehicles etc

rangersac

Medically diagnosed OMS
Fuel excise is a federal tax, which goes into consolidated revenue, and only a portion goes to road funding, and even then only to federal highways.
State roads are funded by GST revenue, local roads by council rates... neither of which is linked to vehicular fuel source. So states aren't out of pocket here. Plus you can make the argument that EV owners have already paid increase tax in advance due to higher purchase price resulting in higher GST and stamp duty revenues.

If you want equity for road users the answer is pretty straightforward. Abolish fuel excise and imposed a user pays system based on annual mileage and weight of vehicle to account for impact to roads.
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Fuel excise is a federal tax, which goes into consolidated revenue, and only a portion goes to road funding, and even then only to federal highways.
State roads are funded by GST revenue, local roads by council rates... neither of which is linked to vehicular fuel source. So states aren't out of pocket here. Plus you can make the argument that EV owners have already paid increase tax in advance due to higher purchase price resulting in higher GST and stamp duty revenues.

If you want equity for road users the answer is pretty straightforward. Abolish fuel excise and imposed a user pays system based on annual mileage and weight of vehicle to account for impact to roads.
There's actually a mind boggling distribution of block grants for roads from the Feds to States and in turn the LGAs.

Ultimately the money has to come from somewhere and the states know that the Feds will use the loss of excise revenue to cut the grants.
 

rangersac

Medically diagnosed OMS
There's actually a mind boggling distribution of block grants for roads from the Feds to States and in turn the LGAs.

Ultimately the money has to come from somewhere and the states know that the Feds will use the loss of excise revenue to cut the grants.
And with the glacial pace of EV uptake in Australia, the loss of fuel exercise revenue is currently 2/10ths of fuck all and is highly likely to remain that way for at least the next couple of years. Not to mention that pretty much every government in Australia is chucking money for roads around like water for economic stimulus purposes.

Budgets have massive holes in them at both state and federal levels thanks to COVID and the China trade dispute, but pretending that an EV excise is going to assist in plugging road maintenance costs gaps is almost as ludicrous as adopting a gas led COVID economic recovery.
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
And with the glacial pace of EV uptake in Australia, the loss of fuel exercise revenue is currently 2/10ths of fuck all and is highly likely to remain that way for at least the next couple of years. Not to mention that pretty much every government in Australia is chucking money for roads around like water for economic stimulus purposes.

Budgets have massive holes in them at both state and federal levels thanks to COVID and the China trade dispute, but pretending that an EV excise is going to assist in plugging road maintenance costs gaps is almost as ludicrous as adopting a gas led COVID economic recovery.
You take your reality and take it the hell out of our intergovernmental funding negotiations!
 

Asininedrivel

caviar connoisseur
I have an idea. It might not be a very good one but internet so here goes.

I'm on the fence about these proposed EV taxes (I understand why they're being proposed and also understand why people are really pissed about them). Why not a tax on vehicle weight instead? Extra weight means more road wear, more consumables and more pollution - either via the pump or plug unless the latter comes from 100% renewable energy. So a vehicle fat tax instead. Yep it'll hit EVs a bit given most are a bit porky but it'll hit the profligate 2.5 tonne fuckwit SUVs and other lard barges a lot harder as well as encouraging weight loss for ICE vehicles which will lessen the impact of them as we (very) slowly transition away. Plus lighter cars are just better.

Yes it'll be a sack of shit to police given various dodgys that will no doubt ensue from manufacturers, dealers and owners. But it seems like a much fairer tax than a standalone EV one that's seemingly being introduced purely to offset losses in fuel taxes.

EDIT: didn't see the post from @rangersac above.
 

mark22

Likes Dirt
It's called paying for roads. I'm sure you've heard of them.

We currently pay for roads through a dogs breakfast of sources but one of the main ones is fuel excise.

Pay as you go charging is actually an improvement. It would be better again if it scaled with weight, carbon taxes and congestion charges.
This is living in the REAL world, user pays it's that simple.
 

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
Another reason why we simply cannot replace every ICE with EV - it doesn't scale, it causes other issues:


The ANU has recently published a calculation that when we have 1 million EVs in Australia, and we have over 19 million cars, just 1 million EV’s would make 25% of the energy consumption in the grid. So EV’s are definitely an energy hungry appliance.
ICE needs to die, quickly, but we need to move to a shared transport model & stop travelling so damn much.
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Another reason why we simply cannot replace every ICE with EV - it doesn't scale, it causes other issues:




ICE needs to die, quickly, but we need to move to a shared transport model & stop travelling so damn much.
Lots of bike lanes with e-bikes for commuting.

Much cheaper to manage that infrastructure then beef up the power grid to manage millions of EVs.
 

rextheute

Likes Bikes and Dirt
This is a divisive video - loathe him , or like him - he makes a good argument .
" exchange of ideas "




This is part 4 - watch the others if inclined - this is very interesting ( to me ) as i am interested in general car biz and EV is a hot topic ( touchpoint in wank speak ) .
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
This is a divisive video - loathe him , or like him - he makes a good argument .
" exchange of ideas "




This is part 4 - watch the others if inclined - this is very interesting ( to me ) as i am interested in general car biz and EV is a hot topic ( touchpoint in wank speak ) .
He does not make a good argument. He is a clickbaiting dickhead...
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
Seee , opinions

Everyone has one

Annnd im not smart enuff to argue on the internet
Nope, that guy is a stupid cockhead, not an opinion, i could support it with facts but I can't bear to watch his clickbait rubbish. Just the first 30 seconds made me want to vomit. Smug fuckwit is the Trump of the automotive world, how anyone could bear 15 minutes of that is beyond me.
 
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