London Riots

[morganb4]

While there is plenty of organised looting, if you believe this blogger http://pennyred.blogspot.com/ it has sprung out of a deeper well of discontent than just greed.

Her quote about violence rarely being mindless pretty much ended it for me, its probably one of the stupidest things I have read. I agree to an extent with a lot of of what she has said; civil disobedience always has deeper roots. It continues in society because we elect politicians who deal with the symptoms and not the cause. This stuff is going on in other countries too. Its just that in the UK, we got it down to a fine art. Whilst there may well be deeper reasons for it, it is still what it is mindless violence.

When the Arab Spring kicked off it was targeted at the cause of the discontent and the demonstrations were focused on that. If the UK riots were focused on the blog authors causes then they wouldn't be riots, they would be demonstrations. They are not, they are a fairly mindless outlet and expression.

You need to also look at London in general too, the acres of parkland that I knew as a kid have all but gone and been replaced by shopping centres and housing estates. Kids have grown up on the street with the media as a role model. This has been reflected in some of pennyreds blog. However her assertions that rioting is related to poorer areas of high density dont add up when you look at Ealing - a fairly nice and relatively affluent area - an area with some bloody nice shops.

A lot of what penny red has done here is attempt to justify the behaviour and add to the media hype and fear that fuels this kind of crap. She has also said that its got nothing to do with the way that kids are brought up and I think that just flies in the face of common sense. If the people in the riots had good educations and where well brought up then we would be seeing more demonstrations and less looting.

This is for certain a disenfranchised criminal element but you have to ask why are they like that, are these people really forgotten about lost people with no hope or are they actually a group of no hopers and losers? Every community has a group of people that actually dont want to be helped and believe in crime as a way of life. I dont think it necessarily follows that these people are the victims that she is making them out to be.

 

[Pushie]

OMG it all just clicked

Where's plow king and daever when you need them.

 

[morganb4]

^^^^^ ha ha brilliant.

What about this:


[video=youtube_share;V5VDbu-HLMs]http://youtu.be/V5VDbu-HLMs[/video]

 

[Bjorn]

I don't know the UK Morgan, so I'll take your word for it about the relative amounts of green space in Ealing. What I got from the Penny Red blog was that these people feel (rightly or wrongly, I don't know) so disenfranchised that tearing the shit out of their built environment is the only way to draw attention to themselves and their grievances. I didn't see it as excusing the behaviour of those participating, but as a call to examine why they are so ready to shit where they eat. As I said in my first post there are definitely those who are using this as an opportunity to loot, but is every rioter a looter, or are those people concentrating on places like Ealing with it's nice shops? Our media coverage is not sufficiently detailed over here for me to know.
Mobs have an energy of their own and while I agree that people with higher levels of education are less likely to riot, well brought up and educated people can and do riot, though usually with less looting. I would see this as because they feel like they have options for a better life while those with less opportunity (through indifference to education or genuine disadvantage) see only a bleak future with no benefits from the social contract flowing to them, so they smash stuff and seize the symbols of wealth in their impotent fury.
Does anyone else wonder if the Brits will institute a curfew with martial law should the rioting continue, or if that might be the spark that ignites more widespread civil unrest. I personally doubt there are sufficient numbers of people with the level or rage needed to sustain the anger for it to build into a broader action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gpRqmuW7Ak
Tomorrow you're homeless; tonight it's a blast.

I'm watching this with a mixture of interest and nausea.

 

[Tristan23]

Just came across this link on facebook... http://catchalooter.tumblr.com/

Dude is compiling photos of looters, and good on him. Some of the shit people are doing is ridiculous.

 

[morganb4]

They will do plastic bullets before curfew, I reckon. I think your right, a curfew would just set them off again. For sure I agree that their are reasons why people lash out like this but that being said its still lashing out. I dont know but suspect that they represent the people in the community that just wont be helped, wont do anything other start shit and I am reluctant to be so ready as to paint these people out to be the victims that blogger wants them to be. You cant fix some people with money, resources or more hugs.

The real victims are the millions of people doing it tough but still getting on with it, struggling on regardless and not setting fire to things. Its the ones you don't hear about that are the victims and I don't think these thugs speak for them.

Totally valid points though and thanks for thinking about what your contributing.

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

This is basically it, an episode of civil disobedience on a small but dispersed scale. Its nothing like the 80's.

I dunno. London's rioting, the unemployment rates are sky-high, the financial markets are going all arse over tit the Tories are back in power and are making cuts left, right and centre whilst the youth of today are dressing like gaudy hyper-coloured tools.

All we're missing is Culture Club at No.1

 

[richie_gt]

For anyone that saw the news this morning there was footage of a young teenager who looked like he was hurt on the ground, someone helped him up on his feet and whilst he was standing up some other guy opened his backpack and stole whatever was in there...shocking stuff!

I also leave for London in a week so I'm interested to see what the situation is when I get there...I hope its settled down somewhat!

 

[Rider_of_Fast]

For anyone that saw the news this morning there was footage of a young teenager who looked like he was hurt on the ground, someone helped him up on his feet and whilst he was standing up some other guy opened his backpack and stole whatever was in there...shocking stuff!

Yeah that was fucked.

This is what happens when you have a society that thinks everyone owes them something (i.e. socialism)...

 

[FoxRidersCo]

Even the double decker's aren't safe... Hopefully no-one was onboard at the time

 

[Drizz]

Only one dead so far - lots of people injuried I supposed. From FB status apparently Islington criminal court is having an all night sitting to deal with all the riot arrests. IMHO I am starting to understand why some countries have a "shoot on sight" policy against looters.

Also noted the pattern of Looting:

* Mobile phone shop to bling up on mobile phone;
* Sport stores to bling up sneakers and hoodies;
* Electronic store for the plasma screen TV;
* Supermarket/corner store for the booze.

but some looters have different priorities:



When I have time might post up more thoughts but it appears in UK the wrong end of the gene pool is doing most of the breeding.

 

[Hamsta]

Interesting to know how many of these people were planning on applying for temporary work associated with the 2012 Olympics?

 

[Norco Maniac]

When I have time might post up more thoughts but it appears in UK the wrong end of the gene pool is doing most of the breeding.

it's not only the UK, it's a world-wide (or at least caucasian) phenomenon. (sp?)

 

[Bjorn]

it's not only the UK, it's a world-wide (or at least caucasian) phenomenon. (sp?)

+1 Violet (Ourselves and our offspring excluded).

 

[rydo2.0]

Won't be going home anytime soon

The UK has gone to the dogs!

So glad that I managed to get out when I did.

The scary thing is that this sort of thing doesn't surprise me in the slightest, it has been boiling under the surface for years now. The slums of Britain just keep getting bigger and there is no helping half of them. They thrive in chaos and fear.

The riots might have the Worlds attention right now but that is nothing compared to the day to day violence that goes on not just in London, but around the country, especially my home town of Glasgow!

After being in Australia for 2 years now, I'm almost scared to go back, I don't have that 6th sense anymore that comes from living in a place like that, sending me home would be like throwing a lamb to the wolves, you need to have your head screwed on and eyes in the back of your head 24/7.

Ozzies don't know how lucky they have it to be living in a country where you can feel safe pretty much anywhere you go. I have left my phone in a taxi and had the taxi driver drive back to my apartment with it, left my laptop bag in a pub over night and collected it the next day, dropped my wallet in the street and been chased down to return it! I have never experienced anything like that at "home"

 

[Hamsta]

The UK has gone to the dogs!

So glad that I managed to get out when I did.

The scary thing is that this sort of thing doesn't surprise me in the slightest, it has been boiling under the surface for years now. The slums of Britain just keep getting bigger and there is no helping half of them. They thrive in chaos and fear.

The riots might have the Worlds attention right now but that is nothing compared to the day to day violence that goes on not just in London, but around the country, especially my home town of Glasgow!

After being in Australia for 2 years now, I'm almost scared to go back, I don't have that 6th sense anymore that comes from living in a place like that, sending me home would be like throwing a lamb to the wolves, you need to have your head screwed on and eyes in the back of your head 24/7.

Ozzies don't know how lucky they have it to be living in a country where you can feel safe pretty much anywhere you go. I have left my phone in a taxi and had the taxi driver drive back to my apartment with it, left my laptop bag in a pub over night and collected it the next day, dropped my wallet in the street and been chased down to return it! I have never experienced anything like that at "home"

Apparently not if you speak with the right accent, went to the right school, went to the right colledge/university and know the right people. Seems like there is a huge disparity in opportunities available to people based upon the well entrenched class divisionism?

 

[rydo2.0]

Class divisionism..........

well entrenched class divisionism?

I wouldn't know anything about that coming from mixed race parents who both grew up in room and kitchen housing schemes of Glasgow. They grafted their asses off to make something of themselves and instilled the exact same ethos in their children. No handouts just hard work.

 

[Norco Maniac]

+1 Violet (Ourselves and our offspring excluded).

ty Bjorn for the vote but yes, i did carefully pick the father of my children....

The UK has gone to the dogs!

as has most of Europe.


After being in Australia for 2 years now, I'm almost scared to go back, I don't have that 6th sense anymore that comes from living in a place like that, sending me home would be like throwing a lamb to the wolves, you need to have your head screwed on and eyes in the back of your head 24/7.

Ozzies don't know how lucky they have it to be living in a country where you can feel safe pretty much anywhere you go.

i'd have to beg to differ, being a woman and all. i'm much luckier than women living in, say, India or Afganistan, but i've done more than my fair share of escorting young women home from our local country town pub defending them from predatory males. entitlement is alive and well in Australia too.

Apparently not if you speak with the right accent, went to the right school, went to the right colledge/university and know the right people. Seems like there is a huge disparity in opportunities available to people based upon the well entrenched class divisionism?

only have to live in Canberra to see that, unfortunately.

 

[Hamsta]

I wouldn't know anything about that coming from mixed race parents who both grew up in room and kitchen housing schemes of Glasgow. They grafted their asses off to make something of themselves and instilled the exact same ethos in their children. No handouts just hard work.

Just to clarify, I wasn't commenting about your own upbringing. Reads like you were lucky and your parents took their role as parents seriously. However, my own limited experience of British society is largely positive, except for the entrenched snobbery.

 

[rydo2.0]

Just to clarify, I wasn't commenting about your own upbringing. Reads like you were lucky and your parents took their role as parents seriously. However, my own limited experience of British society is largely positive, except for the entrenched snobbery.

I completely understand, not to worry.

I completely agree with you about the snobbery.