NSW Unsanctioned Trail Work in the RNP

bigdamo

Likes Bikes
Mate, you are sitting a 1000 miles away making assumptions, so I will enlighten you on a few things. Firstly, the trails we speak of have not been ridden by half of Sydney for sometime, they are totally different to others mentioned here in the past.
Secondly, I do not condone illegal trail building or riding. My point is that if trails are not built for a hugely growing MTB community, unfortunately there will always be people out there that will build and/or ride illegal trails, whether you, me or anyone else agrees with it.

My original post requested that it not be publicized, because it just makes us all look bad, a fair call would you not say?? The fact that you and others in Tassie know about these trails is because people put them on here, exactly my point. Then for some reason, you feel the need to jump on here and start up a pointless argument when we both apparently have the same beliefs.
Firstly I used to live across the road from the Royal and was up there three weeks ago and went for a walk and what I saw shocked me.The amount of illegal riding has grown to such a huge extent that I couldn't believe it. My friends up there who I am still in contact keep me informed.

I think it is a crying shame having volunteered years ago when they first started the MTB trails maintenance programs to see what is happening there.

Ahh the old MTBers are a "hugely growing growing sport and we need/ have to ride in the Royal National Park". Hey guess what recreational shooters are hugely growing sport (or so they tell us) and they want to go shooting in National parks but hey guess what most people find this rather unattractive. The shooters party have alot of clout MTBers don't. Most people couldn't give a flying F*** if MTbers haven't got some where to ride. Have a look at what happening with motorcycles who do there "Nasho" ride when you piss off a few locals at the moment.You can read it in the Leader.

I'm the only person in Tassie who knows that you can even legally ride in the royal because I used to live there.No one from Tassie is going to go riding illegal trails in the royal they don't do it here it is only selfish me me me Sydney people who break the rules for there own selfish gains.
 
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Snit

Likes Bikes
Firstly I used to live across the road from the Royal and was up there three weeks ago and went for a walk and what I saw shocked me.The amount of illegal riding has grown to such a huge extent that I couldn't believe it. My friends up there who I am still in contact keep me informed.

I think it is a crying shame having volunteered years ago when they first started the MTB trails maintenance programs to see what is happening there.

Ahh the old MTBers are a "hugely growing growing sport and we need/ have to ride in the Royal National Park". Hey guess what recreational shooters are hugely growing sport (or so they tell us) and they want to go shooting in National parks but hey guess what most people find this rather unattractive. The shooters party have alot of clout MTBers don't. Most people couldn't give a flying F*** if MTbers haven't got some where to ride. Have a look at what happening with motorcycles who do there "Nasho" ride when you piss off a few locals at the moment.You can read it in the Leader.

I'm the only person in Tassie who knows that you can even legally ride in the royal because I used to live there.No one from Tassie is going to go riding illegal trails in the royal they don't do it here it is only selfish me me me Sydney people who break the rules for there own selfish gains.
I feel like I'm talking to an 8 year old. Anyway, did you not read my last post? I agree with you 100%, yet you are still trying to argue. Are you really that stupid? Enough of trying to be civil, I'm going to let you drag me down to your level. You are a dick with a bad attitude and to be honest, I couldn't care less where you used to live or what you think. You are obviously not intelligent enough to know when someone agrees with you and is on your side. Thank god your'e Tassie's problem now.

And by the way, what's the deal with calling yourself "Big" Damo?? Who goes around calling themselves 'Big'? Wanker.

Ahhhhh, that feels better.
 
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shore_2

Likes Dirt
Bigdamo is a knob.
I'm with snit. They give us some half assed two way trail then carry on when illegal trails are built. Wtf do they expect?
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
As much I like the concept of only legal trails it would probably do more harm than good.

How many got into the sport from riding illegal trails?
how many kept riding because they had close trails?
How many train on illegal trails?
We get no support from the government, we could argue its because of illegal trails but they would take 30 years to give us enough trails anyway so we ain't waiting that long.
Illegal trails give us stuff to build and do, in today society you cant do anything as a kid, no wonder so many drink, vandalise and rebel, everything is illegal
Young kids who cant drive wouldn't get to trails enough.
Illegal trails get kids out of the house, it gets adults out, it gives a health outlet via digging or riding. Seriously Id rather 10 kids building and having an healthy outlet than breaking everything, getting obese and causing issues.
Legal trails are mostly timid as hell and stupidly easy or safe with the select few been decent.
illegal trails provide variety.
instead of spending money of destroying illegal trails (which have already done the damage) how about spending it on creating a legal trail instead.
Or better yet stop paying politicians so much money, and stop paying them 200k for a backbencher. More so stop giving them stupid life pensions, gillard still gets an office, staff, car and free travel for the rest of her life. They earn more money than most and probably have plenty of tax built up, not to mention all the cost they save with their incentives in office. You want to cut the budget cut it there. /rant aha got a bit carried away.


Ideal world we would all ride legal trails but reality is its too hard , more so for downhill riders which I am speaking about.
 
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bikesarefun

Likes Bikes and Dirt
As much I like the concept of only legal trails it would probably do more harm than good.

How many got into the sport from riding illegal trails?
how many kept riding because they had close trails?
How many train on illegal trails?
We get no support from the government, we could argue its because of illegal trails but they would take 30 years to give us enough trails anyway so we ain't waiting that long.
Illegal trails give us stuff to build and do, in today society you cant do anything as a kid, no wonder so many drink, vandalise and rebel, everything is illegal
Young kids who cant drive wouldn't get to trails enough.
Illegal trails get kids out of the house, it gets adults out, it gives a health outlet via digging or riding. Seriously Id rather 10 kids building and having an healthy outlet than breaking everything, getting obese and causing issues.
Legal trails are mostly timid as hell and stupidly easy or safe with the select few been decent.
illegal trails provide variety.
Valid points.

There's always going to be two opposed viewpoints:

(i) Building illegal trails is bad because it puts us at risk of losing legal trails we already have; or

(ii) Building illegal trails is good because it gives us somewhere to ride now, and assists prospects of obtaining more legal trails in the future (by demonstrating demand, etc).

These have obviously irreconcilable differences, and people will always argue. Sucks eh?

.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
Valid points.

There's always going to be two opposed viewpoints:

(i) Building illegal trails is bad because it puts us at risk of losing legal trails we already have; or

(ii) Building illegal trails is good because it gives us somewhere to ride now, and assists prospects of obtaining more legal trails in the future (by demonstrating demand, etc).

These have obviously irreconcilable differences, and people will always argue. Sucks eh?

.
Exactly
The only way you would solve the issue or at least drastically improve it would be if the development was fast tracked. Menai took so long to get that legal and that's just a few trails. It would take too long to get enough legalized and then going down that route you run into the restrictions and trails might need to be dumbed down depending who has control of the project.

I think the best thing to do is focus on developing legal trails, the council destroying trails wont stop builders nor will it really solve any issue except waste time and money, builders will just move to another location ultimately resulting in more destruction of overall land, might as well let them have their original place instead of destroying it. They should focus on building legal trails to draw riders there and away from the need of illegal trails.
Sure illegal trails will also remain due to travel issues or age issues and pure ease of accessibility but there's no reason to waste money and resources destroying said trails when it solves nothing and actually promotes more overall destruction from constant rebuilding in new areas.
 

Wildchild426

Likes Bikes
I feel like I'm talking to an 8 year old. Anyway, did you not read my last post? I agree with you 100%, yet you are still trying to argue. Are you really that stupid? Enough of trying to be civil, I'm going to let you drag me down to your level. You are a dick with a bad attitude and to be honest, I couldn't care less where you used to live or what you think. You are obviously not intelligent enough to know when someone agrees with you and is on your side. Thank god your'e Tassie's problem now.

And by the way, what's the deal with calling yourself "Big" Damo?? Who goes around calling themselves 'Big'? Wanker.

Ahhhhh, that feels better.
Sadly, Biglamo has that effect on you. I am amazed to see, yet again, all his same old regurgitated and pointless arguments I've discovered polluting other threads. He is quite possibly the worst thing for MTB advocacy in Australia. Shooting is a comparable parallel for MTB riding? WTF... Are you on drugs man!!! How can anyone take such a notion seriously, or credit such a sentiment with even a modicum of respect.

I'm with you Snit. Illegal trail building should remain hush hush. Irrespective of whether it should be done or not, it hurts the reputation of responsible MTB riders by bringing illegally built trails to the attention of the public. Moreso, it will send people out in droves on quests to find these 'awesome' new AM trails. If you find such trails and are worried about the public swarming into the RNP in search of them, it's really simple. Keep it to yourself .
 

Snit

Likes Bikes
Look fella's, I'm not going to lie and say I have never ridden non-sanctioned trails before, but I think the attraction is getting out there and exploring and I just think that riding it is heaps more fun than walking it. I always treat the trails and the surrounding bushland with respect. I love it out there whether I'm walking or riding. I even go to the extent of carrying a plastic bag with me in my back pack to pick up other people's rubbish because rubbish dumping is detrimental to our cause. And the rubbish I pick up is not necessarily from mountain bikers. From my experience, the majority of mountain bikers feel the same way.

Anyway, regardless of people's views on illegal trail building, the worst thing we can do is publicize the locations on the internet.

P.S. I agree, Damo is a massive knob.
 
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driftking

Wheel size expert
Not sure if it has been mentioned as well, the discipline you ride will have a major impact on your view. As downhill rider we are virtually forced to ride illegal trails with so many few and distant legal trails, xc riders have plenty of trails and in the situation of that I would agree illegal trails are pretty poor use of land there are lots of xc trails around. As you venture into dh you get much less, 4x even less, freeride/north shore even less and dj very little legal places.

One view that wont change is rubbish, take it with you And building fires is so stupid.
 

outtacontrol

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Not sure if it has been mentioned as well, the discipline you ride will have a major impact on your view. As downhill rider we are virtually forced to ride illegal trails with so many few and distant legal trails, xc riders have plenty of trails and in the situation of that I would agree illegal trails are pretty poor use of land there are lots of xc trails around. As you venture into dh you get much less, 4x even less, freeride/north shore even less and dj very little legal places.

.
This is a good point. As someone who rides a bit of everything, I find my trails can get stale pretty quick, even with a fair variety. It must be very hard to get motivated to ride DH on the same trails all the time.

I too go looking for the trails less travelled (and have occasionally created some of my own)
 

Ridenparadise

Likes Bikes and Dirt
They should focus on building legal trails to draw riders there and away from the need of illegal trails.

This is the truth and the only way there is any chance to keep pace with the growth of the sport (or recreation as the bureaucracy prefers see it).

One question: If you are building legally and have an eyes and ears reporting responsibility to the land manager, how are you supposed to keep quiet about illegal work you know of and may adversely impact on the legal agreement to build? More specifically, how would you feel if the illegal building was being done by people signed onto the legal trailcare agreement and who don't put in a minute of work where it is allowed?

The shades of grey run deep in this argument
 

Wildchild426

Likes Bikes

What's the purpose of this link? Yes it should be listed as heritage land. Won't change the fact that it can still be a great place for hiking and riding MTBs.

Just a further point. Did you know that since this topic flared into existence, 2 of those 'illegal' trails have become sanctioned as MTB trails now? I bet you didn't. Check with RNP if you like. They are known as the Holey Trail and the Cliffs trail. I'm not saying that illegal building is the avenue to getting tracks open in the RNP. What I am saying is that there was and is a plan to extend the trail network in the RNP for MTB riders, and that this is the first step. More are coming. And to those opposing the sanctioning of new trails in the RNP should hang their heads in shame for failing to support the most awesome sport known to man.
 

willsy01

Eats Squid
Just a further point. Did you know that since this topic flared into existence, 2 of those 'illegal' trails have become sanctioned as MTB trails now?
Are you sure about that? I heard the same but was then reliably informed that it wasn't the case at all.
 

Steve Mowle

Likes Bikes
Wet trails in the RNP

To all those riders who use the Royal National Park trails:

Many of the trails, including fire trails and singletracks are too wet to ride atm.

Some of the wet trails are still being ridden in conditions which should have them closed. Other mtb parks coordinated by local council, NPWS, state forestry commission etc, are closed to stop damage during these wet times.
Continuing to ride these trails in wet conditions is only going to cause major damage to these awesome fire trails and singletracks, which in term may lead to them being closed.

Choose the trails you ride carefully in wet conditions, keeping to the dryer trails with good drainage, and avoiding the wet trails which retain the water.

Let's leave them several days to dry and recover.
 

Halo1

Likes Dirt
Did you know that since this topic flared into existence, 2 of those 'illegal' trails have become sanctioned as MTB trails now? I bet you didn't. Check with RNP if you like. T
Are you sure about that? I heard the same but was then reliably informed that it wasn't the case at all.
I was involved in the group that mapped these trails over a year ago for NP as they were looking to expand the Trail Network. I never heard anything official that they were sanctioned. It would be great if they were included as these are great trails.
 

shore_2

Likes Dirt
Best local trail in the wet is menai by far. Only place I have been where wet riding does practically nothing.
 
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