Product Review [Warning: blood e.t.c.] Considering a Bell Super 3R... think again

Andy_Ryder

Likes Bikes
Except my friend works with someone that just won $200k payout from Bell for the same thing happening to his 3r. So i need to know the angle he took on the case I guess.

The convertible helmets advertise themselves as "remove for a climb, then put it on to go crazy on a decent". The only reason the 3r isnt DH rated from what I have found online is the strap.

It's not like I went flat out into a tree at 120km/h, I rolled over in a soft berm and chin bar just caught the ground as I went over. I thought I was totally fine outside a bit winded until my mate told me to sit down. No other damage to body either. I am almost certain if I had a proframe on I would have been ok like the poster above with his massive crash.

Whats the point of a chin bar if it just flexes into your face easily. Just remember I am not the first person this helmet has fucked up someones face, broken teeth etc.

From Bells website:

"A removable chin bar makes the Super 3R uniquely suited to the all-mountain experience. Basically, you get two helmets in one. For long climbs, remove the chin bar and stow it in your pack. And when it’s time for more aggressive riding, you can quickly lock it on, no tools required."

What it should say, during the aggressive riding part, just don't have an accident.
 

nzhumpy

Googlemeister who likes bikes and scandal
ffs...and people wonder why stuff cost so much, this is why we can't have nice things :)

If you don't mind me asking, what age bracket do you fall into?
 

Andy_Ryder

Likes Bikes
I am 39 mate.

If the helmet did it's job and not break and rip my face open then I wouldn't be toying with the idea of compensation. If I went flat out head first into a tree, sure I wouldn't be complaining, but rolling over on a soft first berm clipping the chin bar, easily breaking and flexing into my face, well that's a different story.

It's clear the chin bar is not strong enough to handle a crash onto it, and I feel people should be made aware of it before considering one.

As you can see from a poster above, he had a massive crash with a fox proframe on the chin bar and it held up fine.
 

Earlysport

Likes Bikes
, but rolling over on a soft first berm clipping the chin bar
Is this your new way of what was originally described as you going over the bars straight to your face?

We all feel bad you crashed and got hurt, but I don't think you'll make any friends here by going legal. We all know the risks of riding on trails like Narra. The risk is often the thrill. Fire roads are less risky. I'm typing this with a broken hand from st Ives on the weekend. Shit happens - you're ok.

Earlysport
 

Andy_Ryder

Likes Bikes
I get that, I'm happy I'm ok and will heal in time. I probably shouldn't have mentioned legal, it's been a tough last few weeks, pain killers and feeling sorry for myself I guess.

At the end of the day I still feel like the helmet let me down to an extent. A lot of people I've spoken too over the past few weeks have been under the same questioning, did it cause more damage then it would have been without? I didn't fly otb into rocks or a tree which I would have been more willing to accept the breakage but again its something I'll never know.

Maybe I should just focus more on raising awareness for these types of helmets.

Anyways I'm alive and will ride again

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

wkkie

It's Not Easy Being Green
I compared my old Bell Super 2R and new Super DH chin guards today.

There is more flex in the 2R than the DH chin guard, and the DH is noticeably beefier in it's construction.

Neither is as sturdy as a fixed full face, but I think we all know that going into a convertible helmet.

Heal up @Andy_Ryder.
 

Andy_Ryder

Likes Bikes
Thanks wkkie.

Interesting to see this video of Bell testing the 2r. They state in their impact testing they look for breakages etc. which in my case is what happened, chin bar broke and hit my face and cut me open.

You can see the flex, and how in an impact you should expect to have the chin bar contact your face. The problem is if the chin bar breaks like mine it is going to open you up badly.

I just can't shake the feeling these helmets should be removed from the market, at least the 2r and 3r. The Super DH seems a bit more sturdy possibly but will it crack too in a crash and mess up your face.



Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

Jim Junkie

Used to sell drugs, now he just takes them
Oh and for the proframe, this guy hit the chinbar hard and it held up. He had a concussion but as you will see it didn't break and chin bar is perfectly in tact.

So he got a concussion and is now seemingly in good enough shape to be making a video about the helmet from what by all accounts seemed a pretty big crash. I'd count that as a win, although he seems to want to condemn the helmet because the MIPS bruised his head and the chinbar bruised his chin? I mean if you hit hard enough for the MIPS to imprint your skull, i'd be counting my lucky stars it was there in the first place.

I've always taken the view that the helmet is there to protect my head, not make me invincible. They do a pretty goddamn awesome job of is to in my experience (mostly, Andy's case looks to be an exception here).

Back to the 2R / 3R though. I've had both, and crashed in both to varying degrees. The crash in the 2R was at speed OTB. It was a side impact to the head, but the chin bar did save my chin for a good dose of gravel. No visible cracking or anything afterwards, just scratching up the side and a few dents.

The 3R however, never suffered a major crash. I did come off in minor ways a few times, face planting a bush at low speed and other stuff like that. Nothing that made me stop and inspect the helmet though.

1 year in though, I noticed some cracking on the rivets of the chinbar, where the wrap portion connects. 1 side just a crack into the rivet, but the other side half the plastic around the rivet was missing already. The effect was if you lift up on the back buckle / wrap, the whole lot would pivot up, rendering the wrap somewhat useless. The side buckles were still holding the chin bar in place normally, but I felt it was pretty compromised, so retired the helmet and got a Proframe.

I would regularly remove & attach the chin through a ride, taking it off for most climbs and hanging it off my camelbak strap, so maybe it was the continuous working of the buckles that did it and not a crash. Either way, that's still using it as advertised and it didn't last a year. Kind of shook my confidence in the whole removable chin bar thing, at least that design. The Proframe (IMO) has better visibility, more ventilation and easier to get on and off than the 3R anyway, which makes it better for descents and that is what it's for. If it's a slog of a climb up a firetrail, I can just one hand take off the whole helmet and coming into a technical bit, one hand can get it back on and buckled up. Suits me perfectly.
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Thanks wkkie.

Interesting to see this video of Bell testing the 2r. They state in their impact testing they look for breakages etc. which in my case is what happened, chin bar broke and hit my face and cut me open.

You can see the flex, and how in an impact you should expect to have the chin bar contact your face. The problem is if the chin bar breaks like mine it is going to open you up badly.

I just can't shake the feeling these helmets should be removed from the market, at least the 2r and 3r. The Super DH seems a bit more sturdy possibly but will it crack too in a crash and mess up your face.

Might be time to move on mate. How do you think your face would have fared without a chinbar in the same incident? Yes, you can see them flex in the impact test in the video, and yes they might hit your chin in a huge impact like that. But if you hit something that hard chin-first you'd be more worried about a broken neck than the chinbar performance. The last skid tests are more in line with what you state happened in your accident, and IMO the helmet's performance in that situation appears more than adequate.

Regardless - you're participating in an inherently dangerous sport, and have had an unfortunate occurrence using a light-medium duty helmet. Anyone that owns one knows they'll protect you a bit more than an open-face, but obviously - very obviously - aren't as strong as a true full-face helmet. There's also the possibility the helmet had sustained prior damage that went unnoticed, or there was a sharp rock buried in the soft smooth dirt berm that created a concentrated load point that caused the crack in the chinbar, or you made contact with the bike on the way down, etc... etc... etc...

Remember when people used to use the phrase "freak accident"? It's been duly noted, and now everyone can make an informed decision. But removed from the market? C'mon.
 

Andy_Ryder

Likes Bikes
You never know, maybe it was defective from the factory, my actual helmet that is. It was the 4th time I think I had used it, first two times, without chin bar, next two times with chin bar. Never hit anything with it previously, it was pristine before the accident.

Just remember I am not the first person that has sustained serious injury whilst wearing this helmet. I know of at least a few other cases now where the chin bar failed them, broke teeth, caused lacerations etc. This is my angle I am coming from, and we don't know about other possible cases where people just don't report it as they feel they are 'lucky' and it could have been worse. There is also multiple cases of the Giro Switchblade chin bar failing too, coming off in a crash! It can no longer be classified as a freak accident when more cases start turning up of the same.

At the end of the day, out of this thread, people can make up their minds for themselves if they want to buy this helmet (or other hybrid helmets) or not. This thread is more about showing what can go wrong with this helmet. I won't change my view now though, I believe now in having a separate open lid for normal riding, and a proper DH certified fixed full face for more technical, hardcore riding. Kezzad was there that day, he saw the whole thing, he raised this thread and felt it warranted to change his own helmet from the 3r to the proframe.

I am not here to argue though, I'll leave it at that. I would just hate it to happen to someone else, MTB is a dangerous sport and we have to do whatever we can to protect ourselves, as best as we can.
 

scblack

Leucocholic
I believe now in having a separate open lid for normal riding, and a proper DH certified fixed full face for more technical, hardcore riding.
This is my approach and has been for years now.

For Enduro racing or similar where heat of a FF could affect performance an argument could be made for them. But for normal riding, a convertible helmet is only a compromise.
 

teK--

Eats Squid
Thanks wkkie.

Interesting to see this video of Bell testing the 2r. They state in their impact testing they look for breakages etc. which in my case is what happened, chin bar broke and hit my face and cut me open.

You can see the flex, and how in an impact you should expect to have the chin bar contact your face. The problem is if the chin bar breaks like mine it is going to open you up badly.

I just can't shake the feeling these helmets should be removed from the market, at least the 2r and 3r. The Super DH seems a bit more sturdy possibly but will it crack too in a crash and mess up your face.



Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
It seems to me that the chinpiece is designed to compress and spring back, thus absorbing some crash energy (but not all). Many DH full face helmets will cause the chinpiece to shatter or crack instead. Both types of helmet thus serve the same purpose to absorb crash energy and is probably better than hitting the ground or object with a bare face.
 

kezzad

Squid
Kezzad was there that day, he saw the whole thing, he raised this thread and felt it warranted to change his own helmet from the 3r to the proframe.
It's a good lesson learned. The biggest reason I changed though is what some others have touched on. Seeing your face made me question why I'm riding and what I want from it. Someone said it earlier; I want more thrills. I know the 3R can't support what I want, which is more aggressive riding. With that comes higher risks of me doing dumber things. Which is why I got the Proframe and am looking at a Leatt (like someone else said, if you can protect your face, the next thing that'l go in an OTB is your neck).

Personally, I see Bells marketing as questionable. It needs to be highlighted that the helmet really may not do shit in a full impact OTB scenario (ie. compared to a DH helmet which as someone else said, is likely to crack as opposed to flex). Experienced riders are clearly saying not to expect too much of it. Experience and hindsight are wonderful things.

An inexperienced rider is the person I'm concerned about and why I raised this thread. I wanted inexperienced people to know if you're buying a helmet because chin injury is a risk you're considering, do what everyone else here has said. Just buy a fucking full face helmet that's designed to protect your chin. Skip the bullshit and just mitigate the risk.
 

BT180

Max Pfaff
An inexperienced rider is the person I'm concerned about and why I raised this thread. I wanted inexperienced people to know if you're buying a helmet because chin injury is a risk you're considering, do what everyone else here has said. Just buy a fucking full face helmet that's designed to protect your chin. Skip the bullshit and just mitigate the risk.
This is the hard part. These convertible helmets aren't going away and who really wants to wear a full face up the Narra climb during Summer? Convertibles are always going to be popular for this very reason. But these helmets are in their relative infancy design-wise, so hopefully they begin to bridge the gap somewhat to a proper FF.

There's a tonne of trails around the beaches (in fact most) that have rocks and trees of all shapes and sizes ready to jump out at you, with some serious consequences. But I reckon 90% of riders are wearing half shells due to the amount of climbing required to access, so this is why the convertibles are becoming popular. Although I only put the chin bar on my Super DH when doing shuttles at GV - But that's mainly due to the fact there's nowhere to stash the chin bar if you're not wearing a pack!
 

scblack

Leucocholic
But these helmets are in their relative infancy design-wise, so hopefully they begin to bridge the gap somewhat to a proper FF.
I had a Giro Switchblade back in the late 90's - early 00's when I rode my Stinky Deluxe around Northern Beaches. It was not a new product then, so that's 20+ years of this type of product being available.
 

nzhumpy

Googlemeister who likes bikes and scandal
and who really wants to wear a full face up the Narra climb during Summer? Convertibles are always going to be popular for this very reason.

There's a tonne of trails around the beaches (in fact most) that have rocks and trees of all shapes and sizes ready to jump out at you, with some serious consequences. But I reckon 90% of riders are wearing half shells due to the amount of climbing required to access,
And this is the exact reason why I bought a Switchblade, no way can I ride up Narra in a ff in peak summer without melting.
 

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
I've kept my opinion on helmets with a removable chin piece off the public forums for a while but this thread makes me think it's time to talk about it from a race organiser's perspective.
I hate the fucking things, they shouldn't be allowed to be manufactured let alone sold as something that protects your grill. I won't let people race a downhill event using one, no way. I've seen a few dudes go tits up and those things are piles of shit in a good impact (as we're seeing here with Andy). Personally, I'd never go near one mainly because they look ridiculous and the idea of staying cool on a climb by removing a piece? Lame!
On the flipside though, if we were all serious about helmets and protecting ourselves and maybe in my case especially; wearing something that looks good then there'd be no open face helmets at all and a solid fullface would be the only option. Roadies would wear them, XC guys would wear them, E bikers would wear them.
You only need a helmet when you need a helmet. Don't sell yourself short by getting some flimsy piece of shit junk. Buy a decent fullface and live to tell the tale.
 

BT180

Max Pfaff
I had a Giro Switchblade back in the late 90's - early 00's when I rode my Stinky Deluxe around Northern Beaches. It was not a new product then, so that's 20+ years of this type of product being available.
Wow, didn't realise they were around that long.
 
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