Trump..... (The Sophistry Thread)

LPG

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Once again I'm going to chime in without giving the discussion the time it could have used (I'm trying to avoid saying deserve because it doesnt deserve much right now).

I maintained your quotation marks when talking about it. It's not just the USSR though, every re-imagining of a Socialist regime has ended in roughly the same outcome (with varying degrees of horrific outcome). I was drawing attention to is the double standard in how we can plain as day just talk about Socialism without the flutter of an eyelid, but you try and talk about the virtues of Fascism and you'll be met with a vehement response. I'd also argue that you can, very quickly and objectively, using rough body counts and reasons for the body count existing, state a strong case that one is many scales worse than the other. I find it peculiar, and thought it was an interesting talking point, so I mentioned it.
Is it the socialist aspect that has caused the deaths or is it another mechanism? I would attribute much of the issues that have happened with communism to be due to nationalism (a form of tribalism) and a lack of accountability of the powers to the citizens (in the ussr the power was the government but any unchecked powers can cause issues). Tribalism and unchecked power can lead to terrible things. Tribalism allows a group to dehumanised another group and not care about their situation. Unchecked power let's leaders and those in power make sacrifices to meet a target that is not seen as beneficial to the collective. These are both present and the cause of the issues in both facism and communism. These same issues are also pretty damaging in many other areas including capitalism/corporations

I dont think anyone here is advocating adopting communism and "socialist" aspects like free healthcare, education and minimum wages are not a slippery slope to a communist regime. These are a just way to try and ensure all people have an even start in life and a bottom to fall to that isn't too hard to crawl back up from. Do you disagree with this paragraph?

I agree that there isn't much right wing support on this forum but from my perspective anything right of centre seems to support their view by ignoring huge amounts of contrary evidence and cherry picking data from questionable sources to support their view. Science and expertise seems to be attacked by the right wing as "tools of the left" instead of the evidence it should be. The closest evidence based thing I've seen by right wing supporters is referencing laws that as if their words are perfect and immune from judgement. I'd love to see some evidence based arguments from the right wing supporters bit naive given up on looking. Can you point me in the right direction?
 
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downunderdallas

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I must admit I was happier when both right and left were coming together in the middle as I think that's where we should be, right-wing parties seem to be moving more right in a lot of countries appealing to peoples fears. I think people need incentives (I know I do) to get out there and be productive. At the same time, we need to look after those people who need looking after. Not sure there is anything that is going to work everywhere. The Scandanavians seem to have most of the boxes ticked but I'm not sure that would work here. Labor is presenting a pretty lackluster alternative locally and I loathe the marketing manager we currently have to endure, but hey at least we don't have Trump, even though he did give us Four Seasons Landscaping for which I shall forever be grateful!
 

moorey

Ask me about Piriformis syndrome
I'm not sure it's worth trying to explain due process to you again.
What's the deal, did your parents have to water you twice a day?
Bahaha...not even you can call this ‘due process’ with a straight face on your best trolling day.
 

mas2

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Trumps won an election and Biden’s won an election so let’s split the difference and give Zaf and Moorey 3 months off each. Sort of like when Homer and Ned drew in the golf competition.

369516
 

LPG

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Answered that here:



She is talking about creating lists of people that differ from her on a political basis in order to insure they are held accountable for crime of having a different opinion. Trust a socialist to downplay the significance of creating lists of political opponents :D



US drug innovation patents vs worldwide.





Also
View attachment 369508
I read a few different medical journals on the regular and anecdotally US are world leaders in trauma medicine and the processes and changes all seem to come out of there.
The only solid point for more conservative viewpoints I've picked up came from one of the few well run courses I had when at uni studying engineering. It was a finance course aimed at engineers and the studies show that places with typically aspirational places witharger differences between the rich and the poor led to more entrepreneurial activity and inventions. On a large this is a pretty small advantage for the typical right wing policies. "We make people suffer a little bit more so an extra 3 in 1000 people start a successful business".
 

rangersac

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Answered that here:
Ok, fair enough. Still don't see you doing a lot of posted regarding stuff from that side of the political aisle but point taken about your Trump opinion.

She is talking about creating lists of people that differ from her on a political basis in order to insure they are held accountable for crime of having a different opinion. Trust a socialist to downplay the significance of creating lists of political opponents :D
So that's like your opinion maaan. She's a filthy socialist so must be keeping lists for retribution purposes. Mind you I don't see what the GOP beef would be here. Given that it's a party that encourages individual responsibility for one's actions, holding individuals accountable for things they've willingly placed in the public domain seems pretty aligned with that policy.

I read a few different medical journals on the regular and anecdotally US are world leaders in trauma medicine and the processes and changes all seem to come out of there.
They might be leading innovators in the world of medicine, but that doesn't translate to better services for their citizens. The US is below the OECD average on a host healthcare related metrics including access to and affordability of care, despite the fact they have the highest per capita spend on health
 

Oddjob

Wheel size expert
I'm not sure it's worth trying to explain due process to you again.
What's the deal, did your parents have to water you twice a day?
Having been involved in the peaceful hand over of power in Australia a couple of times, and earning a Master of Public Administration I understand due process well enough. I also understand that due process is made up of written laws and unwritten conventions and precedents.

No one is surprised that Trump is being a douche and refusing to make intelligence briefings available to Biden. But claiming Trump's behaviour is just following due process is just being wilfully ignorant, stupid or both? Who knows what goes on behind your mono-brow.

I still prefer to believe that your mono and Frida's mono are quantum entangled through space and all time. It's more romantic than calling you a stupid troll.
 
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downunderdallas

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Capitalism and the free market isn't perfect, but it's the most successful system the world has ever seen with regards to liberating people from poverty. The rich do get richer, but the poor get richer as well.
You can blend capitalism and socialism, as we and most countries do it's not all or nothing, it's just a question of where you sit on the spectrum
 

rangersac

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"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
So spouting off online is a thought crime is it? Funny how employers routinely check potential employee's online footprint these days prior to employment, law enforcement agencies do it for prosecution and to monitor potential threats, and journalists do it looking for a scoop to name a few examples. Not to mention that what she is suggesting already exists.
 
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