Scott 24hr 2009
- Thread starter goryden
- Start date
EzyLee
Likes Dirt
Cheers for the explanation Mark. Good luck with sorting the results out.
normdouglas
Likes Dirt
I hope this does happen Russ... not that I like being precious... but it really annoys/amazes me when people continue to stand in front of a solo tent talking... when the solo rider is there trying to get back out on course! I hate asking them to "move please", I just wish they would do it themselves.
So controlling Pit Alley would be good... however! As happened in Canmore, there still needs to be some flexibility.
In relation to the two lap idea... whatever happens... organisers need to consider "Riders on course per meter" as the FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT consideration. This is not only important for rider frustration and fairness... but also for the course sustainability...
When we ran the Forrest 6 Hour we contacted Russ and Snozza (Kona 24 hour) and asked what the "Duckworth-Lewis" equation is... they both told me that once you get under 45m per rider, then you should start to worry. From my quick calculations, the Scott 24 hour 2009 courses were something like 32m.
In my opinion MTBA needs to step in here, and set some sort of benchmark. Both for rider safety and for track sustainability.
yeah, stupid wind.
Le Matelot
Canberra Off-Road Cyclists
Pretty sure I told you that 50 is good, we try to achieve 45 metres and not go under 35, but anyhow ...
26.5 actually, which makes this our second "most crowded" race ever. Here are the average rider track spacings at CORC's 24 hour over the years. 2006 (25 metres) is remembered as particularly crowded. I have also attached a graph (but have lopped off the top of 1999 so the rest of the numbers show up better).
1999 345.7
2000 119.7
2001 75.5
2002 50.0
2003 39.8
2004 35.8
2005 30.3
2006 25.0
2007 44.1
2008 45.0
2009 26.5
However, its not quite that simple. Two other major factors which will affect this are:
The proportion of single track to fire trail. At one extreme, if a course was all wide fire trail, then you could have riders riding 10 abreast and there would be minimal blockages. Mind you, there would also be minimal blockages because I don't think you'd get anyone to enter the race. On the other hand, a 20Km long narrow single trail would not offer passing opportunities.
The length of individual single track sections. Most riders will put up with being held up for a short time, but on a long section of single track with no passing opportunities, the frustration grows (well, so I've been told - I don't overtake many people these days). However, the corollary of this is that riders like to ride single track, and longer sections allow them to get into an enjoyable rhythm.
I'm sure we'll kick it around, but the above variables make it hard to set "rules". At the end of the day, the riders want an enjoyable experience, and there are enough 24 hour races out there to let market forces decide. But, there is still the problem that a first-timer might be put off the sport by a bad experience, and that needs to be avoided.
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Le Matelot
Canberra Off-Road Cyclists
I'd like to state my respect for the guys for saying this. In this age of spin doctors and duck-n-cover, its nice to see people out there with big brass ones.
Delmar
Likes Dirt
Wasn't at the race (and was really sorry to have missed it), but I'll +1 on this. Just a pleasure to read that sort of measured, reasonable and humble response. Onyas.
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think I must have imagined that sweet green mojo on one of the early laps? must have been the mild concussion
i too am missing a few but hey at that end of the scale it does not really matter....gps also had died so no record apart from first couple
Agree with most of your post, and even this last paragraph for a standard 24 hour, but without wanting to change this into the World Solo 24 Hour thread, next year the focus should be the soloists racing for a world title and there wont be any 24 hour first-timers in that field.
Not trying to be a smart arse but do you care to expand on why you think this should be the case?
I am not a solo rider (although I will be giving up a team ride next year to support a mate going solo) but I just don't see why the team riders should be treated as 2nd class citizens because the World Champs are in town. Not the way I'd treat loyal customers.
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Incontinent
Crusty Juggler
I suspect you'll find that CORC are considering running the 24hr team race in tandem with the Solo World Championships as means to offset the cost of staging the Solo Champs.
Pretty costly exercise to run these as 2 separate events.
The Solo Champs field will be minuscule compared to what is norm for the Scott yet they will require similar levels of infrastructure and support.
Pizzaz
Likes Dirt
Personally I'd be surprised (and I guess a little sad) if the world solos were all on a separate track... solo racing in amongst teams (someone to give you that 4am 'attaboy') is great.
But...
There is a thing here that it is the world champs so the course designers should have the freedom to design for a field that has done at few 24hr races and done so at pace without having to think that there will be people riding the course that are doing their first 24hr and might only do 2 laps!
At Canmore, large parts of the track were shared but the world solos split into different, more technical singletrack that you probably wouldn't put in a std 24hr race cause you'd create bottlenecks no matter what the spacing was!
One of the reasons why Stromlo is such a great venu is that CORC has ample opportunities to do this. I'm not a canberra local but if the main track was essentially the loop that was followed this year with the world solos peeling off to do sections of loop 5 and 6 on the stronlo interactive map then you achieve the objectives of a good team race that everyone can enjoy whilst building a course that is suitable 'challenging' for a world solo champs.
We don't have the 600+m of climbing per lap that Canmore did so my guess is that similar to aussie versions of world champs XC, what our track lacks in elevation change it makes up for in technical difficulty!
At Canmore there was also a class for regional solos who used the strandard course - so not all solos race the same. This I think was a great format and effectively the worlds was a race within a race. Teams got to go hell for leather and solos got to ride technical trails in the dark... what could be more fun. Less agro.
Glad I wasn't soloing this year, all that passing and being passed looked to be mentally quite fatiguing - no dissapearing into your own head for 40mins at a time
Whatever gets done... I'm sure it'll be awesome
Umm
There will also be a teams race run in conjunction with the main event just like at previous Solo world champs but you would be a little misguided to think that next year the main event will be anything other than the Solo racers.
It will be a fantastic race for everyone no doubt.
I dont think Corc has gone to all the trouble of securing the World Solo 24hr for a laugh of course its going to be their main focus.
There will also be a teams race run in conjunction with the main event just like at previous Solo world champs but you would be a little misguided to think that next year the main event will be anything other than the Solo racers.
It will be a fantastic race for everyone no doubt.
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McBain
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Problem: solved. The Solos can split off from the rest of the field by turning right up Cardiac Climb and run the UCI XCO Worlds course.
That should separate the wheat from the chaff (and some acromions from their clavicles - sorry, bad anatomy joke).
Not suggesting the Solo Champs shouldn't be a quality affair but what I am saying is that the team event should not be some half arsed effort out the back cause all the focus is on the World Champs.
I don't think that is fair for all the punters that will be stumping up their hard earned. Lets be honest, if it wasn't for them there would be no World Champs.
Either do it right or not at all.
Pizzaz
Likes Dirt
Yeah, I was thinking as I posted this that perhaps I should shut up...
World Solo Champs
Next year we will be aiming to run both an excellent team's race and the world solo champs. There will be some additional requirements for the solo race, but we won't let them detract from the overall event. And there is no intention to 'milk' the team's race to 'pay' for the solo. If anything, the profile of the solo race should bring in more interest and hence dollars and support.
Sure, it will be a challenge (particularly given some lessons from this year), but the goal will be to keep the team's race at a high standard while meeting the demands of the world solos.
Next year we will be aiming to run both an excellent team's race and the world solo champs. There will be some additional requirements for the solo race, but we won't let them detract from the overall event. And there is no intention to 'milk' the team's race to 'pay' for the solo. If anything, the profile of the solo race should bring in more interest and hence dollars and support.
Sure, it will be a challenge (particularly given some lessons from this year), but the goal will be to keep the team's race at a high standard while meeting the demands of the world solos.
Blingerific
Likes Dirt
Or someone in a Bundy Bear suit...I so gotta get me some "Bears in the area" signs for next year
Cheers
Gonz
Blingerific
Likes Dirt
Ah, so <i> that's </i>who I went out looking for. Got a cryptic message of an injured rider from the Scouts, off I went...